Is it appropriate to request that the department hire a female faculty member?
Our department is currently hiring a new faculty member. The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty member should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty.
The candidate that we support is highly qualified in terms of research and teaching. Moreover, among all the candidates who have visited, they are the only one who have any experience with diversity initiatives and getting underrepresented groups into STEM. This is very important to many of us, especially since the department is planning to add an undergraduate program in the near future.
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked to make science a more inclusive place for women and other underrepresented minorities.
My main question is is whether it is appropriate for us to additionally express our desire for a woman faculty member.
ethics job-search gender
New contributor
add a comment |
Our department is currently hiring a new faculty member. The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty member should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty.
The candidate that we support is highly qualified in terms of research and teaching. Moreover, among all the candidates who have visited, they are the only one who have any experience with diversity initiatives and getting underrepresented groups into STEM. This is very important to many of us, especially since the department is planning to add an undergraduate program in the near future.
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked to make science a more inclusive place for women and other underrepresented minorities.
My main question is is whether it is appropriate for us to additionally express our desire for a woman faculty member.
ethics job-search gender
New contributor
I doubt you can “request” such a thing, although you can certainly lobby it.
– ZeroTheHero
2 hours ago
1
"The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty" I don't think it would be appropriate to request such a thing, if only for their gender. Hiring someone should be done based on merit, not gender, in either direction. Of course, if as you said she is highly qualified, then make sure your request is based on this and make no mention of gender.
– YiFan
1 hour ago
@YiFan: Answer in answers, not in comments.
– V2Blast
45 mins ago
could you add statistics? How many women, how many male faculty you have? what is ratio in student population?
– aaaaaa
2 mins ago
add a comment |
Our department is currently hiring a new faculty member. The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty member should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty.
The candidate that we support is highly qualified in terms of research and teaching. Moreover, among all the candidates who have visited, they are the only one who have any experience with diversity initiatives and getting underrepresented groups into STEM. This is very important to many of us, especially since the department is planning to add an undergraduate program in the near future.
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked to make science a more inclusive place for women and other underrepresented minorities.
My main question is is whether it is appropriate for us to additionally express our desire for a woman faculty member.
ethics job-search gender
New contributor
Our department is currently hiring a new faculty member. The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty member should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty.
The candidate that we support is highly qualified in terms of research and teaching. Moreover, among all the candidates who have visited, they are the only one who have any experience with diversity initiatives and getting underrepresented groups into STEM. This is very important to many of us, especially since the department is planning to add an undergraduate program in the near future.
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked to make science a more inclusive place for women and other underrepresented minorities.
My main question is is whether it is appropriate for us to additionally express our desire for a woman faculty member.
ethics job-search gender
ethics job-search gender
New contributor
New contributor
edited 16 mins ago
V2Blast
16218
16218
New contributor
asked 4 hours ago
gstgst
1283
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New contributor
I doubt you can “request” such a thing, although you can certainly lobby it.
– ZeroTheHero
2 hours ago
1
"The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty" I don't think it would be appropriate to request such a thing, if only for their gender. Hiring someone should be done based on merit, not gender, in either direction. Of course, if as you said she is highly qualified, then make sure your request is based on this and make no mention of gender.
– YiFan
1 hour ago
@YiFan: Answer in answers, not in comments.
– V2Blast
45 mins ago
could you add statistics? How many women, how many male faculty you have? what is ratio in student population?
– aaaaaa
2 mins ago
add a comment |
I doubt you can “request” such a thing, although you can certainly lobby it.
– ZeroTheHero
2 hours ago
1
"The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty" I don't think it would be appropriate to request such a thing, if only for their gender. Hiring someone should be done based on merit, not gender, in either direction. Of course, if as you said she is highly qualified, then make sure your request is based on this and make no mention of gender.
– YiFan
1 hour ago
@YiFan: Answer in answers, not in comments.
– V2Blast
45 mins ago
could you add statistics? How many women, how many male faculty you have? what is ratio in student population?
– aaaaaa
2 mins ago
I doubt you can “request” such a thing, although you can certainly lobby it.
– ZeroTheHero
2 hours ago
I doubt you can “request” such a thing, although you can certainly lobby it.
– ZeroTheHero
2 hours ago
1
1
"The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty" I don't think it would be appropriate to request such a thing, if only for their gender. Hiring someone should be done based on merit, not gender, in either direction. Of course, if as you said she is highly qualified, then make sure your request is based on this and make no mention of gender.
– YiFan
1 hour ago
"The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty" I don't think it would be appropriate to request such a thing, if only for their gender. Hiring someone should be done based on merit, not gender, in either direction. Of course, if as you said she is highly qualified, then make sure your request is based on this and make no mention of gender.
– YiFan
1 hour ago
@YiFan: Answer in answers, not in comments.
– V2Blast
45 mins ago
@YiFan: Answer in answers, not in comments.
– V2Blast
45 mins ago
could you add statistics? How many women, how many male faculty you have? what is ratio in student population?
– aaaaaa
2 mins ago
could you add statistics? How many women, how many male faculty you have? what is ratio in student population?
– aaaaaa
2 mins ago
add a comment |
7 Answers
7
active
oldest
votes
the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty.
This is not a good reason. Gender imbalance is fought educating everybody (males, females and any possible group) equally and hiring the best people, regardless of their gender, not choosing people by gender, that's sexism.
The candidate that we support is highly qualified in terms of research and teaching. Moreover, among all the candidates who have visited, they are the only one who have any experience with diversity initiatives and getting underrepresented groups into stem. This is very important to many of us, especially since the department is planning to add an undergraduate program in the near future.
These are very good reasons to hire someone, and reasons to be proud being hired for. If I was her I'd find disrespectful being hired first because I'm a woman and second because of these good reasons.
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked to make science a more inclusive place for women and other underrepresented minorities.
Again, these may be good points to write in the open letter, but the fact that she's a woman shouldn't matter. She's a great candidate no matter what she has between her legs.
I find this logic of hiring women because they are women very sexist, towards both men and women. Towards men because they are at a disadvantage, towards women because you're treating them like kids, giving them a preferential route they don't need. Women can clearly be good enough to be hired just for their skills and not for their gender.
Fight for her to be hired if you think she's the best choice, write the letter and explain why she's the best choice, that she's better than the other candidates because she is better, not because she's a a lady.
6
The current gender imbalance exists because preferential treatment is given to men all along in one way or another. So pushing the question back to "educating the best people" raises the same issues.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning I'm not sure I got what you mean so I won't answer, could you rephrase it please?
– Run like hell
2 hours ago
1
(Just seconding your comment, @ElizabethHenning...)
– paul garrett
2 hours ago
2
It's ironic that political correctness here gives the males an entirely legitimate pseudo-reason to favour hiring a female for all the wrong reasons, provided they are not so stupid as to actually say that is what they are doing.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
add a comment |
If you write such an open letter and she is hired, there is a risk that rumor will spread that she was only hired because she is female. Such rumors are harmful even if she was clearly hired on merit alone.
So consider the possibility that your letter does more harm than good. And, if you do write such a letter, make it clear that you think she is the most qualified candidate for the job, not that you think she should be hired for her gender.
add a comment |
It is certainly appropriate for you to express your desire for a particular candidate. In addition to writing to the chair of the department, it would also be helpful to contact the chair of the hiring committee (in case that individual is not the chair of the department).
If you are concerned about blowback for some reason, it would also be possible to write and submit the letter anonymously.
4
+1. You might want to suggest that the female students would be greatly aided by having one or more female mentors available in the faculty. I've known such appeals to be very effective, though it depends a lot on personalities, as you might expect.
– Buffy
4 hours ago
add a comment |
I am not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that what you are proposing (taking gender into account in hiring of faculty) would be illegal in any public university in my state, and I suspect it may run afoul of other US states’ and perhaps US federal legislation. See here and here for more information. I advise you to inform yourself of the laws and policies where you are before writing any letters.
Asking your department to do something that breaks the law is not only completely inappropriate, but it even risks leading a risk-averse administrator to choose (consciously or subconsciously) to take the opposite course of action from what you are proposing, just out of fear that they might later be accused later of illegal discrimination, with your letter being used as evidence that they acted out of impure motives.
I do think it’s probably appropriate (under reasonable assumptions about your institution’s culture being a relatively normal and healthy one) for you and other graduate students to express your opinions to the department about which candidate is most qualified for the position, based on objective criteria that are unrelated to gender.
add a comment |
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support
of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked
to make science a more inclusive place for women and other
underrepresented minorities.
Assuming that you value inclusivity (and most do, although some don't), then supporting her candidacy for her abilities and experience is entirely appropriate.
My main question is is whether it is appropriate for us to
additionally express our desire for a woman faculty member.
Well, that does depend on how willing you are to be called out for sexism.
What is the difference between the following two statements:
Hire him because we want a man in the position.
Hire her because we want a woman in the position.
Oh, you can get all sorts of justifications, but the heart of it is that specifying the sex of a new hire as a job qualification is sexist. By definition.
Stick with the inclusivity argument. Everybody knows what you mean.
New contributor
add a comment |
You can request that the process is thorough and potentially short list is open. That is to prevent situation where considered candidates are all college buddies of some dude (becasue they went to all-male college or whatever).
You can influence the search processes, but hiring should be merit-based, and gender-neutral. However, in my opinion, "manels" are more and more because of lack of outreach and openness rather than "we couldn't find female candidates". So when people say
you should hire more women
what they mean (IMHO) is
check your process so that you don't follow implicit and explicit biases
For example, does your college provide day care? Or parental leave? Is there some controversial situation that is unresolved? (see what's up with my school)
And of course, you as students have (limited) power to nominate more candidates you deem high-quality. Nobody can stop you from telling your deans or professors "you should also consider X, Y, and Z because we love their work"
add a comment |
Can she also be "black". while at it ..?
What I mean is: you worry about the disproportion of the amount of women hired.
I'm only wondering how many black people are working in "such a place"?
Maybe it would also be nice if she could be "blind". I bet you don't have many blind black women working there.
Do you get my point?
regards, Miguel
New contributor
hi Miguel. Welcome to this site. While I can see logic behind your point, right now it is very low-quality answer. You should improve it to add more details of what you are trying to say.
– aaaaaa
11 mins ago
Thanks aaaaaa I just did
– Miguel
10 mins ago
it still comes across as not very constructive. read here for more details academia.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-answer For example, you are not answering the question, more commenting on it
– aaaaaa
7 mins ago
It is constructive. The fact that you have to read between the lines, is what makes people have to think, which is what I'm aiming at. Sorry if that's not good enough. The answer to the question is that you shouldn't be racist ever on any grounds and that there's no need to be hypocrite. If you are worried about the amount of women, you should also wonder about the amount of impaired, black, gay/lesbian, older than 50, etc. people. I do understand the author. Me too I would rather be surrounded by young beautiful women at my job, but since that's not very democratic, I don't ask for it.
– Miguel
3 mins ago
"The answer can be “don’t do that”, but it should also include “try this instead”."
– aaaaaa
35 secs ago
add a comment |
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7 Answers
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the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty.
This is not a good reason. Gender imbalance is fought educating everybody (males, females and any possible group) equally and hiring the best people, regardless of their gender, not choosing people by gender, that's sexism.
The candidate that we support is highly qualified in terms of research and teaching. Moreover, among all the candidates who have visited, they are the only one who have any experience with diversity initiatives and getting underrepresented groups into stem. This is very important to many of us, especially since the department is planning to add an undergraduate program in the near future.
These are very good reasons to hire someone, and reasons to be proud being hired for. If I was her I'd find disrespectful being hired first because I'm a woman and second because of these good reasons.
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked to make science a more inclusive place for women and other underrepresented minorities.
Again, these may be good points to write in the open letter, but the fact that she's a woman shouldn't matter. She's a great candidate no matter what she has between her legs.
I find this logic of hiring women because they are women very sexist, towards both men and women. Towards men because they are at a disadvantage, towards women because you're treating them like kids, giving them a preferential route they don't need. Women can clearly be good enough to be hired just for their skills and not for their gender.
Fight for her to be hired if you think she's the best choice, write the letter and explain why she's the best choice, that she's better than the other candidates because she is better, not because she's a a lady.
6
The current gender imbalance exists because preferential treatment is given to men all along in one way or another. So pushing the question back to "educating the best people" raises the same issues.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning I'm not sure I got what you mean so I won't answer, could you rephrase it please?
– Run like hell
2 hours ago
1
(Just seconding your comment, @ElizabethHenning...)
– paul garrett
2 hours ago
2
It's ironic that political correctness here gives the males an entirely legitimate pseudo-reason to favour hiring a female for all the wrong reasons, provided they are not so stupid as to actually say that is what they are doing.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
add a comment |
the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty.
This is not a good reason. Gender imbalance is fought educating everybody (males, females and any possible group) equally and hiring the best people, regardless of their gender, not choosing people by gender, that's sexism.
The candidate that we support is highly qualified in terms of research and teaching. Moreover, among all the candidates who have visited, they are the only one who have any experience with diversity initiatives and getting underrepresented groups into stem. This is very important to many of us, especially since the department is planning to add an undergraduate program in the near future.
These are very good reasons to hire someone, and reasons to be proud being hired for. If I was her I'd find disrespectful being hired first because I'm a woman and second because of these good reasons.
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked to make science a more inclusive place for women and other underrepresented minorities.
Again, these may be good points to write in the open letter, but the fact that she's a woman shouldn't matter. She's a great candidate no matter what she has between her legs.
I find this logic of hiring women because they are women very sexist, towards both men and women. Towards men because they are at a disadvantage, towards women because you're treating them like kids, giving them a preferential route they don't need. Women can clearly be good enough to be hired just for their skills and not for their gender.
Fight for her to be hired if you think she's the best choice, write the letter and explain why she's the best choice, that she's better than the other candidates because she is better, not because she's a a lady.
6
The current gender imbalance exists because preferential treatment is given to men all along in one way or another. So pushing the question back to "educating the best people" raises the same issues.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning I'm not sure I got what you mean so I won't answer, could you rephrase it please?
– Run like hell
2 hours ago
1
(Just seconding your comment, @ElizabethHenning...)
– paul garrett
2 hours ago
2
It's ironic that political correctness here gives the males an entirely legitimate pseudo-reason to favour hiring a female for all the wrong reasons, provided they are not so stupid as to actually say that is what they are doing.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
add a comment |
the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty.
This is not a good reason. Gender imbalance is fought educating everybody (males, females and any possible group) equally and hiring the best people, regardless of their gender, not choosing people by gender, that's sexism.
The candidate that we support is highly qualified in terms of research and teaching. Moreover, among all the candidates who have visited, they are the only one who have any experience with diversity initiatives and getting underrepresented groups into stem. This is very important to many of us, especially since the department is planning to add an undergraduate program in the near future.
These are very good reasons to hire someone, and reasons to be proud being hired for. If I was her I'd find disrespectful being hired first because I'm a woman and second because of these good reasons.
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked to make science a more inclusive place for women and other underrepresented minorities.
Again, these may be good points to write in the open letter, but the fact that she's a woman shouldn't matter. She's a great candidate no matter what she has between her legs.
I find this logic of hiring women because they are women very sexist, towards both men and women. Towards men because they are at a disadvantage, towards women because you're treating them like kids, giving them a preferential route they don't need. Women can clearly be good enough to be hired just for their skills and not for their gender.
Fight for her to be hired if you think she's the best choice, write the letter and explain why she's the best choice, that she's better than the other candidates because she is better, not because she's a a lady.
the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty.
This is not a good reason. Gender imbalance is fought educating everybody (males, females and any possible group) equally and hiring the best people, regardless of their gender, not choosing people by gender, that's sexism.
The candidate that we support is highly qualified in terms of research and teaching. Moreover, among all the candidates who have visited, they are the only one who have any experience with diversity initiatives and getting underrepresented groups into stem. This is very important to many of us, especially since the department is planning to add an undergraduate program in the near future.
These are very good reasons to hire someone, and reasons to be proud being hired for. If I was her I'd find disrespectful being hired first because I'm a woman and second because of these good reasons.
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked to make science a more inclusive place for women and other underrepresented minorities.
Again, these may be good points to write in the open letter, but the fact that she's a woman shouldn't matter. She's a great candidate no matter what she has between her legs.
I find this logic of hiring women because they are women very sexist, towards both men and women. Towards men because they are at a disadvantage, towards women because you're treating them like kids, giving them a preferential route they don't need. Women can clearly be good enough to be hired just for their skills and not for their gender.
Fight for her to be hired if you think she's the best choice, write the letter and explain why she's the best choice, that she's better than the other candidates because she is better, not because she's a a lady.
edited 2 hours ago
answered 2 hours ago
Run like hellRun like hell
5731311
5731311
6
The current gender imbalance exists because preferential treatment is given to men all along in one way or another. So pushing the question back to "educating the best people" raises the same issues.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning I'm not sure I got what you mean so I won't answer, could you rephrase it please?
– Run like hell
2 hours ago
1
(Just seconding your comment, @ElizabethHenning...)
– paul garrett
2 hours ago
2
It's ironic that political correctness here gives the males an entirely legitimate pseudo-reason to favour hiring a female for all the wrong reasons, provided they are not so stupid as to actually say that is what they are doing.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
add a comment |
6
The current gender imbalance exists because preferential treatment is given to men all along in one way or another. So pushing the question back to "educating the best people" raises the same issues.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
@ElizabethHenning I'm not sure I got what you mean so I won't answer, could you rephrase it please?
– Run like hell
2 hours ago
1
(Just seconding your comment, @ElizabethHenning...)
– paul garrett
2 hours ago
2
It's ironic that political correctness here gives the males an entirely legitimate pseudo-reason to favour hiring a female for all the wrong reasons, provided they are not so stupid as to actually say that is what they are doing.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
6
6
The current gender imbalance exists because preferential treatment is given to men all along in one way or another. So pushing the question back to "educating the best people" raises the same issues.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
The current gender imbalance exists because preferential treatment is given to men all along in one way or another. So pushing the question back to "educating the best people" raises the same issues.
– Elizabeth Henning
2 hours ago
3
3
@ElizabethHenning I'm not sure I got what you mean so I won't answer, could you rephrase it please?
– Run like hell
2 hours ago
@ElizabethHenning I'm not sure I got what you mean so I won't answer, could you rephrase it please?
– Run like hell
2 hours ago
1
1
(Just seconding your comment, @ElizabethHenning...)
– paul garrett
2 hours ago
(Just seconding your comment, @ElizabethHenning...)
– paul garrett
2 hours ago
2
2
It's ironic that political correctness here gives the males an entirely legitimate pseudo-reason to favour hiring a female for all the wrong reasons, provided they are not so stupid as to actually say that is what they are doing.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
It's ironic that political correctness here gives the males an entirely legitimate pseudo-reason to favour hiring a female for all the wrong reasons, provided they are not so stupid as to actually say that is what they are doing.
– alephzero
2 hours ago
add a comment |
If you write such an open letter and she is hired, there is a risk that rumor will spread that she was only hired because she is female. Such rumors are harmful even if she was clearly hired on merit alone.
So consider the possibility that your letter does more harm than good. And, if you do write such a letter, make it clear that you think she is the most qualified candidate for the job, not that you think she should be hired for her gender.
add a comment |
If you write such an open letter and she is hired, there is a risk that rumor will spread that she was only hired because she is female. Such rumors are harmful even if she was clearly hired on merit alone.
So consider the possibility that your letter does more harm than good. And, if you do write such a letter, make it clear that you think she is the most qualified candidate for the job, not that you think she should be hired for her gender.
add a comment |
If you write such an open letter and she is hired, there is a risk that rumor will spread that she was only hired because she is female. Such rumors are harmful even if she was clearly hired on merit alone.
So consider the possibility that your letter does more harm than good. And, if you do write such a letter, make it clear that you think she is the most qualified candidate for the job, not that you think she should be hired for her gender.
If you write such an open letter and she is hired, there is a risk that rumor will spread that she was only hired because she is female. Such rumors are harmful even if she was clearly hired on merit alone.
So consider the possibility that your letter does more harm than good. And, if you do write such a letter, make it clear that you think she is the most qualified candidate for the job, not that you think she should be hired for her gender.
answered 1 hour ago
ThomasThomas
12.3k52945
12.3k52945
add a comment |
add a comment |
It is certainly appropriate for you to express your desire for a particular candidate. In addition to writing to the chair of the department, it would also be helpful to contact the chair of the hiring committee (in case that individual is not the chair of the department).
If you are concerned about blowback for some reason, it would also be possible to write and submit the letter anonymously.
4
+1. You might want to suggest that the female students would be greatly aided by having one or more female mentors available in the faculty. I've known such appeals to be very effective, though it depends a lot on personalities, as you might expect.
– Buffy
4 hours ago
add a comment |
It is certainly appropriate for you to express your desire for a particular candidate. In addition to writing to the chair of the department, it would also be helpful to contact the chair of the hiring committee (in case that individual is not the chair of the department).
If you are concerned about blowback for some reason, it would also be possible to write and submit the letter anonymously.
4
+1. You might want to suggest that the female students would be greatly aided by having one or more female mentors available in the faculty. I've known such appeals to be very effective, though it depends a lot on personalities, as you might expect.
– Buffy
4 hours ago
add a comment |
It is certainly appropriate for you to express your desire for a particular candidate. In addition to writing to the chair of the department, it would also be helpful to contact the chair of the hiring committee (in case that individual is not the chair of the department).
If you are concerned about blowback for some reason, it would also be possible to write and submit the letter anonymously.
It is certainly appropriate for you to express your desire for a particular candidate. In addition to writing to the chair of the department, it would also be helpful to contact the chair of the hiring committee (in case that individual is not the chair of the department).
If you are concerned about blowback for some reason, it would also be possible to write and submit the letter anonymously.
answered 4 hours ago
aeismail♦aeismail
160k31374698
160k31374698
4
+1. You might want to suggest that the female students would be greatly aided by having one or more female mentors available in the faculty. I've known such appeals to be very effective, though it depends a lot on personalities, as you might expect.
– Buffy
4 hours ago
add a comment |
4
+1. You might want to suggest that the female students would be greatly aided by having one or more female mentors available in the faculty. I've known such appeals to be very effective, though it depends a lot on personalities, as you might expect.
– Buffy
4 hours ago
4
4
+1. You might want to suggest that the female students would be greatly aided by having one or more female mentors available in the faculty. I've known such appeals to be very effective, though it depends a lot on personalities, as you might expect.
– Buffy
4 hours ago
+1. You might want to suggest that the female students would be greatly aided by having one or more female mentors available in the faculty. I've known such appeals to be very effective, though it depends a lot on personalities, as you might expect.
– Buffy
4 hours ago
add a comment |
I am not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that what you are proposing (taking gender into account in hiring of faculty) would be illegal in any public university in my state, and I suspect it may run afoul of other US states’ and perhaps US federal legislation. See here and here for more information. I advise you to inform yourself of the laws and policies where you are before writing any letters.
Asking your department to do something that breaks the law is not only completely inappropriate, but it even risks leading a risk-averse administrator to choose (consciously or subconsciously) to take the opposite course of action from what you are proposing, just out of fear that they might later be accused later of illegal discrimination, with your letter being used as evidence that they acted out of impure motives.
I do think it’s probably appropriate (under reasonable assumptions about your institution’s culture being a relatively normal and healthy one) for you and other graduate students to express your opinions to the department about which candidate is most qualified for the position, based on objective criteria that are unrelated to gender.
add a comment |
I am not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that what you are proposing (taking gender into account in hiring of faculty) would be illegal in any public university in my state, and I suspect it may run afoul of other US states’ and perhaps US federal legislation. See here and here for more information. I advise you to inform yourself of the laws and policies where you are before writing any letters.
Asking your department to do something that breaks the law is not only completely inappropriate, but it even risks leading a risk-averse administrator to choose (consciously or subconsciously) to take the opposite course of action from what you are proposing, just out of fear that they might later be accused later of illegal discrimination, with your letter being used as evidence that they acted out of impure motives.
I do think it’s probably appropriate (under reasonable assumptions about your institution’s culture being a relatively normal and healthy one) for you and other graduate students to express your opinions to the department about which candidate is most qualified for the position, based on objective criteria that are unrelated to gender.
add a comment |
I am not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that what you are proposing (taking gender into account in hiring of faculty) would be illegal in any public university in my state, and I suspect it may run afoul of other US states’ and perhaps US federal legislation. See here and here for more information. I advise you to inform yourself of the laws and policies where you are before writing any letters.
Asking your department to do something that breaks the law is not only completely inappropriate, but it even risks leading a risk-averse administrator to choose (consciously or subconsciously) to take the opposite course of action from what you are proposing, just out of fear that they might later be accused later of illegal discrimination, with your letter being used as evidence that they acted out of impure motives.
I do think it’s probably appropriate (under reasonable assumptions about your institution’s culture being a relatively normal and healthy one) for you and other graduate students to express your opinions to the department about which candidate is most qualified for the position, based on objective criteria that are unrelated to gender.
I am not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that what you are proposing (taking gender into account in hiring of faculty) would be illegal in any public university in my state, and I suspect it may run afoul of other US states’ and perhaps US federal legislation. See here and here for more information. I advise you to inform yourself of the laws and policies where you are before writing any letters.
Asking your department to do something that breaks the law is not only completely inappropriate, but it even risks leading a risk-averse administrator to choose (consciously or subconsciously) to take the opposite course of action from what you are proposing, just out of fear that they might later be accused later of illegal discrimination, with your letter being used as evidence that they acted out of impure motives.
I do think it’s probably appropriate (under reasonable assumptions about your institution’s culture being a relatively normal and healthy one) for you and other graduate students to express your opinions to the department about which candidate is most qualified for the position, based on objective criteria that are unrelated to gender.
edited 6 mins ago
answered 42 mins ago
Dan RomikDan Romik
85.2k21183282
85.2k21183282
add a comment |
add a comment |
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support
of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked
to make science a more inclusive place for women and other
underrepresented minorities.
Assuming that you value inclusivity (and most do, although some don't), then supporting her candidacy for her abilities and experience is entirely appropriate.
My main question is is whether it is appropriate for us to
additionally express our desire for a woman faculty member.
Well, that does depend on how willing you are to be called out for sexism.
What is the difference between the following two statements:
Hire him because we want a man in the position.
Hire her because we want a woman in the position.
Oh, you can get all sorts of justifications, but the heart of it is that specifying the sex of a new hire as a job qualification is sexist. By definition.
Stick with the inclusivity argument. Everybody knows what you mean.
New contributor
add a comment |
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support
of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked
to make science a more inclusive place for women and other
underrepresented minorities.
Assuming that you value inclusivity (and most do, although some don't), then supporting her candidacy for her abilities and experience is entirely appropriate.
My main question is is whether it is appropriate for us to
additionally express our desire for a woman faculty member.
Well, that does depend on how willing you are to be called out for sexism.
What is the difference between the following two statements:
Hire him because we want a man in the position.
Hire her because we want a woman in the position.
Oh, you can get all sorts of justifications, but the heart of it is that specifying the sex of a new hire as a job qualification is sexist. By definition.
Stick with the inclusivity argument. Everybody knows what you mean.
New contributor
add a comment |
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support
of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked
to make science a more inclusive place for women and other
underrepresented minorities.
Assuming that you value inclusivity (and most do, although some don't), then supporting her candidacy for her abilities and experience is entirely appropriate.
My main question is is whether it is appropriate for us to
additionally express our desire for a woman faculty member.
Well, that does depend on how willing you are to be called out for sexism.
What is the difference between the following two statements:
Hire him because we want a man in the position.
Hire her because we want a woman in the position.
Oh, you can get all sorts of justifications, but the heart of it is that specifying the sex of a new hire as a job qualification is sexist. By definition.
Stick with the inclusivity argument. Everybody knows what you mean.
New contributor
We are planning to write an open letter to the department in support
of this candidate, citing her qualifications as someone who has worked
to make science a more inclusive place for women and other
underrepresented minorities.
Assuming that you value inclusivity (and most do, although some don't), then supporting her candidacy for her abilities and experience is entirely appropriate.
My main question is is whether it is appropriate for us to
additionally express our desire for a woman faculty member.
Well, that does depend on how willing you are to be called out for sexism.
What is the difference between the following two statements:
Hire him because we want a man in the position.
Hire her because we want a woman in the position.
Oh, you can get all sorts of justifications, but the heart of it is that specifying the sex of a new hire as a job qualification is sexist. By definition.
Stick with the inclusivity argument. Everybody knows what you mean.
New contributor
edited 43 mins ago
V2Blast
16218
16218
New contributor
answered 1 hour ago
James MartinJames Martin
1113
1113
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
You can request that the process is thorough and potentially short list is open. That is to prevent situation where considered candidates are all college buddies of some dude (becasue they went to all-male college or whatever).
You can influence the search processes, but hiring should be merit-based, and gender-neutral. However, in my opinion, "manels" are more and more because of lack of outreach and openness rather than "we couldn't find female candidates". So when people say
you should hire more women
what they mean (IMHO) is
check your process so that you don't follow implicit and explicit biases
For example, does your college provide day care? Or parental leave? Is there some controversial situation that is unresolved? (see what's up with my school)
And of course, you as students have (limited) power to nominate more candidates you deem high-quality. Nobody can stop you from telling your deans or professors "you should also consider X, Y, and Z because we love their work"
add a comment |
You can request that the process is thorough and potentially short list is open. That is to prevent situation where considered candidates are all college buddies of some dude (becasue they went to all-male college or whatever).
You can influence the search processes, but hiring should be merit-based, and gender-neutral. However, in my opinion, "manels" are more and more because of lack of outreach and openness rather than "we couldn't find female candidates". So when people say
you should hire more women
what they mean (IMHO) is
check your process so that you don't follow implicit and explicit biases
For example, does your college provide day care? Or parental leave? Is there some controversial situation that is unresolved? (see what's up with my school)
And of course, you as students have (limited) power to nominate more candidates you deem high-quality. Nobody can stop you from telling your deans or professors "you should also consider X, Y, and Z because we love their work"
add a comment |
You can request that the process is thorough and potentially short list is open. That is to prevent situation where considered candidates are all college buddies of some dude (becasue they went to all-male college or whatever).
You can influence the search processes, but hiring should be merit-based, and gender-neutral. However, in my opinion, "manels" are more and more because of lack of outreach and openness rather than "we couldn't find female candidates". So when people say
you should hire more women
what they mean (IMHO) is
check your process so that you don't follow implicit and explicit biases
For example, does your college provide day care? Or parental leave? Is there some controversial situation that is unresolved? (see what's up with my school)
And of course, you as students have (limited) power to nominate more candidates you deem high-quality. Nobody can stop you from telling your deans or professors "you should also consider X, Y, and Z because we love their work"
You can request that the process is thorough and potentially short list is open. That is to prevent situation where considered candidates are all college buddies of some dude (becasue they went to all-male college or whatever).
You can influence the search processes, but hiring should be merit-based, and gender-neutral. However, in my opinion, "manels" are more and more because of lack of outreach and openness rather than "we couldn't find female candidates". So when people say
you should hire more women
what they mean (IMHO) is
check your process so that you don't follow implicit and explicit biases
For example, does your college provide day care? Or parental leave? Is there some controversial situation that is unresolved? (see what's up with my school)
And of course, you as students have (limited) power to nominate more candidates you deem high-quality. Nobody can stop you from telling your deans or professors "you should also consider X, Y, and Z because we love their work"
answered 9 mins ago
aaaaaaaaaaaa
940413
940413
add a comment |
add a comment |
Can she also be "black". while at it ..?
What I mean is: you worry about the disproportion of the amount of women hired.
I'm only wondering how many black people are working in "such a place"?
Maybe it would also be nice if she could be "blind". I bet you don't have many blind black women working there.
Do you get my point?
regards, Miguel
New contributor
hi Miguel. Welcome to this site. While I can see logic behind your point, right now it is very low-quality answer. You should improve it to add more details of what you are trying to say.
– aaaaaa
11 mins ago
Thanks aaaaaa I just did
– Miguel
10 mins ago
it still comes across as not very constructive. read here for more details academia.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-answer For example, you are not answering the question, more commenting on it
– aaaaaa
7 mins ago
It is constructive. The fact that you have to read between the lines, is what makes people have to think, which is what I'm aiming at. Sorry if that's not good enough. The answer to the question is that you shouldn't be racist ever on any grounds and that there's no need to be hypocrite. If you are worried about the amount of women, you should also wonder about the amount of impaired, black, gay/lesbian, older than 50, etc. people. I do understand the author. Me too I would rather be surrounded by young beautiful women at my job, but since that's not very democratic, I don't ask for it.
– Miguel
3 mins ago
"The answer can be “don’t do that”, but it should also include “try this instead”."
– aaaaaa
35 secs ago
add a comment |
Can she also be "black". while at it ..?
What I mean is: you worry about the disproportion of the amount of women hired.
I'm only wondering how many black people are working in "such a place"?
Maybe it would also be nice if she could be "blind". I bet you don't have many blind black women working there.
Do you get my point?
regards, Miguel
New contributor
hi Miguel. Welcome to this site. While I can see logic behind your point, right now it is very low-quality answer. You should improve it to add more details of what you are trying to say.
– aaaaaa
11 mins ago
Thanks aaaaaa I just did
– Miguel
10 mins ago
it still comes across as not very constructive. read here for more details academia.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-answer For example, you are not answering the question, more commenting on it
– aaaaaa
7 mins ago
It is constructive. The fact that you have to read between the lines, is what makes people have to think, which is what I'm aiming at. Sorry if that's not good enough. The answer to the question is that you shouldn't be racist ever on any grounds and that there's no need to be hypocrite. If you are worried about the amount of women, you should also wonder about the amount of impaired, black, gay/lesbian, older than 50, etc. people. I do understand the author. Me too I would rather be surrounded by young beautiful women at my job, but since that's not very democratic, I don't ask for it.
– Miguel
3 mins ago
"The answer can be “don’t do that”, but it should also include “try this instead”."
– aaaaaa
35 secs ago
add a comment |
Can she also be "black". while at it ..?
What I mean is: you worry about the disproportion of the amount of women hired.
I'm only wondering how many black people are working in "such a place"?
Maybe it would also be nice if she could be "blind". I bet you don't have many blind black women working there.
Do you get my point?
regards, Miguel
New contributor
Can she also be "black". while at it ..?
What I mean is: you worry about the disproportion of the amount of women hired.
I'm only wondering how many black people are working in "such a place"?
Maybe it would also be nice if she could be "blind". I bet you don't have many blind black women working there.
Do you get my point?
regards, Miguel
New contributor
edited 11 mins ago
New contributor
answered 18 mins ago
MiguelMiguel
11
11
New contributor
New contributor
hi Miguel. Welcome to this site. While I can see logic behind your point, right now it is very low-quality answer. You should improve it to add more details of what you are trying to say.
– aaaaaa
11 mins ago
Thanks aaaaaa I just did
– Miguel
10 mins ago
it still comes across as not very constructive. read here for more details academia.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-answer For example, you are not answering the question, more commenting on it
– aaaaaa
7 mins ago
It is constructive. The fact that you have to read between the lines, is what makes people have to think, which is what I'm aiming at. Sorry if that's not good enough. The answer to the question is that you shouldn't be racist ever on any grounds and that there's no need to be hypocrite. If you are worried about the amount of women, you should also wonder about the amount of impaired, black, gay/lesbian, older than 50, etc. people. I do understand the author. Me too I would rather be surrounded by young beautiful women at my job, but since that's not very democratic, I don't ask for it.
– Miguel
3 mins ago
"The answer can be “don’t do that”, but it should also include “try this instead”."
– aaaaaa
35 secs ago
add a comment |
hi Miguel. Welcome to this site. While I can see logic behind your point, right now it is very low-quality answer. You should improve it to add more details of what you are trying to say.
– aaaaaa
11 mins ago
Thanks aaaaaa I just did
– Miguel
10 mins ago
it still comes across as not very constructive. read here for more details academia.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-answer For example, you are not answering the question, more commenting on it
– aaaaaa
7 mins ago
It is constructive. The fact that you have to read between the lines, is what makes people have to think, which is what I'm aiming at. Sorry if that's not good enough. The answer to the question is that you shouldn't be racist ever on any grounds and that there's no need to be hypocrite. If you are worried about the amount of women, you should also wonder about the amount of impaired, black, gay/lesbian, older than 50, etc. people. I do understand the author. Me too I would rather be surrounded by young beautiful women at my job, but since that's not very democratic, I don't ask for it.
– Miguel
3 mins ago
"The answer can be “don’t do that”, but it should also include “try this instead”."
– aaaaaa
35 secs ago
hi Miguel. Welcome to this site. While I can see logic behind your point, right now it is very low-quality answer. You should improve it to add more details of what you are trying to say.
– aaaaaa
11 mins ago
hi Miguel. Welcome to this site. While I can see logic behind your point, right now it is very low-quality answer. You should improve it to add more details of what you are trying to say.
– aaaaaa
11 mins ago
Thanks aaaaaa I just did
– Miguel
10 mins ago
Thanks aaaaaa I just did
– Miguel
10 mins ago
it still comes across as not very constructive. read here for more details academia.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-answer For example, you are not answering the question, more commenting on it
– aaaaaa
7 mins ago
it still comes across as not very constructive. read here for more details academia.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-answer For example, you are not answering the question, more commenting on it
– aaaaaa
7 mins ago
It is constructive. The fact that you have to read between the lines, is what makes people have to think, which is what I'm aiming at. Sorry if that's not good enough. The answer to the question is that you shouldn't be racist ever on any grounds and that there's no need to be hypocrite. If you are worried about the amount of women, you should also wonder about the amount of impaired, black, gay/lesbian, older than 50, etc. people. I do understand the author. Me too I would rather be surrounded by young beautiful women at my job, but since that's not very democratic, I don't ask for it.
– Miguel
3 mins ago
It is constructive. The fact that you have to read between the lines, is what makes people have to think, which is what I'm aiming at. Sorry if that's not good enough. The answer to the question is that you shouldn't be racist ever on any grounds and that there's no need to be hypocrite. If you are worried about the amount of women, you should also wonder about the amount of impaired, black, gay/lesbian, older than 50, etc. people. I do understand the author. Me too I would rather be surrounded by young beautiful women at my job, but since that's not very democratic, I don't ask for it.
– Miguel
3 mins ago
"The answer can be “don’t do that”, but it should also include “try this instead”."
– aaaaaa
35 secs ago
"The answer can be “don’t do that”, but it should also include “try this instead”."
– aaaaaa
35 secs ago
add a comment |
gst is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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I doubt you can “request” such a thing, although you can certainly lobby it.
– ZeroTheHero
2 hours ago
1
"The general consensus among the graduate student body is that the new faculty should be female in order to help address the wildly disproportionate gender ratio in our current faculty" I don't think it would be appropriate to request such a thing, if only for their gender. Hiring someone should be done based on merit, not gender, in either direction. Of course, if as you said she is highly qualified, then make sure your request is based on this and make no mention of gender.
– YiFan
1 hour ago
@YiFan: Answer in answers, not in comments.
– V2Blast
45 mins ago
could you add statistics? How many women, how many male faculty you have? what is ratio in student population?
– aaaaaa
2 mins ago