Are there physical properties that can be used to differentiate stainless steel from copper in a home...
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So the backstory is that I purchased a reusable drinking straw that is copper coloured, but is advertised to be stainless steel. That got me thinking about whether I could be sure it was one or the other without having access to a laboratory.
I saw this answer that mentions that the conductivity of steel is much lower, but I don't think my voltmeter could really measure something this small. The other effect I know of would be the Hall effect (nice because it's a tube, so it's easy to demonstrate), but I wasn't able to find what the predicted behaviour is for a steel tube.
My question is then: are there any at-home/readily available ways to differentiate copper vs. stainless steel.
material-science physical-chemistry density home-experiment metals
New contributor
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put on hold as too broad by Kyle Kanos, Buzz, Chair, ZeroTheHero, Rory Alsop 1 hour ago
Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
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So the backstory is that I purchased a reusable drinking straw that is copper coloured, but is advertised to be stainless steel. That got me thinking about whether I could be sure it was one or the other without having access to a laboratory.
I saw this answer that mentions that the conductivity of steel is much lower, but I don't think my voltmeter could really measure something this small. The other effect I know of would be the Hall effect (nice because it's a tube, so it's easy to demonstrate), but I wasn't able to find what the predicted behaviour is for a steel tube.
My question is then: are there any at-home/readily available ways to differentiate copper vs. stainless steel.
material-science physical-chemistry density home-experiment metals
New contributor
$endgroup$
put on hold as too broad by Kyle Kanos, Buzz, Chair, ZeroTheHero, Rory Alsop 1 hour ago
Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
1
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It is also strange someone would sell copper as stainless steel, unless the stainless steel is a very special one. But I know I am not answering the question. Just a though
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– Alchimista
Jan 22 at 9:44
2
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You might want to ask this on Chemistry. They might give you a more definitive test relying on chemical rather than physical principles.
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– WaterMolecule
2 days ago
6
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Certain grades of stainless steel are magnetic so that offers a possible quick check although it's one-sided and not definitive.
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– Engineer Toast
2 days ago
3
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Copper compounds are toxic, as well copper metal being susceptible to corrosion in acids (eg fruit juice), so I would be very surprised if an implement to be placed in the mouth were copper - also you might get tingling in your tooth fillings due to the electrode potential !
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– MikeW
2 days ago
2
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if you are willing to damage the copper-colour coating it's easy. Stainless steel is silvery, copper is, er, coppery. Gently file an end?
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– nigel222
22 hours ago
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show 3 more comments
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So the backstory is that I purchased a reusable drinking straw that is copper coloured, but is advertised to be stainless steel. That got me thinking about whether I could be sure it was one or the other without having access to a laboratory.
I saw this answer that mentions that the conductivity of steel is much lower, but I don't think my voltmeter could really measure something this small. The other effect I know of would be the Hall effect (nice because it's a tube, so it's easy to demonstrate), but I wasn't able to find what the predicted behaviour is for a steel tube.
My question is then: are there any at-home/readily available ways to differentiate copper vs. stainless steel.
material-science physical-chemistry density home-experiment metals
New contributor
$endgroup$
So the backstory is that I purchased a reusable drinking straw that is copper coloured, but is advertised to be stainless steel. That got me thinking about whether I could be sure it was one or the other without having access to a laboratory.
I saw this answer that mentions that the conductivity of steel is much lower, but I don't think my voltmeter could really measure something this small. The other effect I know of would be the Hall effect (nice because it's a tube, so it's easy to demonstrate), but I wasn't able to find what the predicted behaviour is for a steel tube.
My question is then: are there any at-home/readily available ways to differentiate copper vs. stainless steel.
material-science physical-chemistry density home-experiment metals
material-science physical-chemistry density home-experiment metals
New contributor
New contributor
edited Jan 22 at 11:32
Qmechanic♦
103k121851177
103k121851177
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asked Jan 22 at 5:52
KolichikovKolichikov
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26824
New contributor
New contributor
put on hold as too broad by Kyle Kanos, Buzz, Chair, ZeroTheHero, Rory Alsop 1 hour ago
Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as too broad by Kyle Kanos, Buzz, Chair, ZeroTheHero, Rory Alsop 1 hour ago
Please edit the question to limit it to a specific problem with enough detail to identify an adequate answer. Avoid asking multiple distinct questions at once. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question. If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
1
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It is also strange someone would sell copper as stainless steel, unless the stainless steel is a very special one. But I know I am not answering the question. Just a though
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– Alchimista
Jan 22 at 9:44
2
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You might want to ask this on Chemistry. They might give you a more definitive test relying on chemical rather than physical principles.
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– WaterMolecule
2 days ago
6
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Certain grades of stainless steel are magnetic so that offers a possible quick check although it's one-sided and not definitive.
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– Engineer Toast
2 days ago
3
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Copper compounds are toxic, as well copper metal being susceptible to corrosion in acids (eg fruit juice), so I would be very surprised if an implement to be placed in the mouth were copper - also you might get tingling in your tooth fillings due to the electrode potential !
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– MikeW
2 days ago
2
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if you are willing to damage the copper-colour coating it's easy. Stainless steel is silvery, copper is, er, coppery. Gently file an end?
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– nigel222
22 hours ago
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1
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It is also strange someone would sell copper as stainless steel, unless the stainless steel is a very special one. But I know I am not answering the question. Just a though
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– Alchimista
Jan 22 at 9:44
2
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You might want to ask this on Chemistry. They might give you a more definitive test relying on chemical rather than physical principles.
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– WaterMolecule
2 days ago
6
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Certain grades of stainless steel are magnetic so that offers a possible quick check although it's one-sided and not definitive.
$endgroup$
– Engineer Toast
2 days ago
3
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Copper compounds are toxic, as well copper metal being susceptible to corrosion in acids (eg fruit juice), so I would be very surprised if an implement to be placed in the mouth were copper - also you might get tingling in your tooth fillings due to the electrode potential !
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– MikeW
2 days ago
2
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if you are willing to damage the copper-colour coating it's easy. Stainless steel is silvery, copper is, er, coppery. Gently file an end?
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– nigel222
22 hours ago
1
1
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It is also strange someone would sell copper as stainless steel, unless the stainless steel is a very special one. But I know I am not answering the question. Just a though
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– Alchimista
Jan 22 at 9:44
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It is also strange someone would sell copper as stainless steel, unless the stainless steel is a very special one. But I know I am not answering the question. Just a though
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– Alchimista
Jan 22 at 9:44
2
2
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You might want to ask this on Chemistry. They might give you a more definitive test relying on chemical rather than physical principles.
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– WaterMolecule
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You might want to ask this on Chemistry. They might give you a more definitive test relying on chemical rather than physical principles.
$endgroup$
– WaterMolecule
2 days ago
6
6
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Certain grades of stainless steel are magnetic so that offers a possible quick check although it's one-sided and not definitive.
$endgroup$
– Engineer Toast
2 days ago
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Certain grades of stainless steel are magnetic so that offers a possible quick check although it's one-sided and not definitive.
$endgroup$
– Engineer Toast
2 days ago
3
3
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Copper compounds are toxic, as well copper metal being susceptible to corrosion in acids (eg fruit juice), so I would be very surprised if an implement to be placed in the mouth were copper - also you might get tingling in your tooth fillings due to the electrode potential !
$endgroup$
– MikeW
2 days ago
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Copper compounds are toxic, as well copper metal being susceptible to corrosion in acids (eg fruit juice), so I would be very surprised if an implement to be placed in the mouth were copper - also you might get tingling in your tooth fillings due to the electrode potential !
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– MikeW
2 days ago
2
2
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if you are willing to damage the copper-colour coating it's easy. Stainless steel is silvery, copper is, er, coppery. Gently file an end?
$endgroup$
– nigel222
22 hours ago
$begingroup$
if you are willing to damage the copper-colour coating it's easy. Stainless steel is silvery, copper is, er, coppery. Gently file an end?
$endgroup$
– nigel222
22 hours ago
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11 Answers
11
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Take advantage of the large difference in thermal conductivity between copper and stainless steel (approximately $400$ and $16$ $mathrm{Wm^{-1}K^{-1}}$ respectively). If you put one end of a metal rod into contact with something held at a constant high or low temperature $T_C$, you would expect the other end to asymptotically approach that temperature like:
$$
T(t) sim T_C + A e^{-lambda t}
$$
where
$$
lambda = frac{k}{rho c_p L^2}
$$
where $k$ is the thermal heat conductivity, $rho$ is the mass density, $c_p$ is the specific heat capacity and $L$ is the length of the metal rod.
Assuming the straw is approximately $0.1$ m long, you should get $lambda$ values of approximately $0.011$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for copper and approximately $0.0004$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for stainless steel.
A simple experiment would consist of putting one end of the your straw into contact with a container of ice water, or maybe a pot of boiling water, while you carefully measure and record the temperature at the other end as a function of time. (If the straw is longer than $0.1$ m, immerse the extra length of the straw into the water.) The best thing would be if you had some kind of digital thermometer that allows you to log data, but it could probably also be done with an analog thermometer, a clock, and a notebook. After taking the measurements it should be relatively easy to determine weather the temperature difference decreases with a half-life of one minute or half an hour.
There are many potential error sources in a simple experiment like this, but since the difference between copper and stainless steel is more than an order of magnitude, it should be relatively easy to tell them apart despite these errors. The experiment could also be carried out for other rods that are known to be made of copper or stainless steel (or of some other metal), to validate that the experiment gives approximately the expected result for them.
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I think this is a great idea. It's not possible to hand-hold a copper item when it is placed in a flame a few inches away from the fingers, but it is not a problem with a stainless steel item. Now in order to be non-destructive one may want to reduce the heat to, say, boiling oil, but that should suffice. Best would be to have a similar comparison item of either steel or copper; a known steel straw should be possible to come by.
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– Peter A. Schneider
Jan 22 at 14:05
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@PeterA.Schneider I agree. There are many possible experiments along these lines that could be made. And the comparison item(s) doesn't really have to very similar in shape or size. The time scale of heat conduction only depends on material constants and the distance.
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– jkej
2 days ago
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I think my concern with this suggestion is the coating. This is either copper or stainless steel with an unknown coating. I suspect that the coating could easily alter the thermal conductivity. In particular, it probably makes it slower, which might make it more closely resemble copper. You could end up with a false positive.
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– conman
2 days ago
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@conman I would think that the influence of the coating is negligible, unless it's very thick, which seems unlikely.
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– jkej
2 days ago
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@conman all plausible coating/surface finish processes will affect only a thin (w.r.t the likely wall thickness) surface layer, so the thermal conductivity difference should be clear. Whether you could tell copper from aluminium that way is another matter, but density should do that (I've seen anodised aluminium utensils so wouldn't rule them out given the possibility of a misleading seller)
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– Chris H
yesterday
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Why not density? At least for a quick check and as for the title question. You are dealing with about < 8 and 9 g per cubic cm, respectively for steel and copper.
Not overly laborious and especially non destructive at all.
To measure the volume you can submerge the object in the narrow container of your kitchen. If isn't graduated you just mark the displacement. The same with a graduated one for better precision. Collect that volume of water and move to a kitchen scale. As for you can weight the object as well, the experimental part is over.
Also note that as it is a straw it could also be possible to measure the thickness of the wall. So you calculate the volume. A caliper might be uncommon at home (incidentally I have one) but it remains a possibility. Inner diameter then is measured by passing/non passing wires. This might be tedious.
Indeed a straw complicates the procedure as its volume brings things down to ten grams or so.
See also the comment of Andrew Morton below. Having a dietary scale and using his trick he did indeed identified the nature of a straw.
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The laborious part is determining the volume of the straw. Essentially, this requires measuring the wall thickness and diameter of the straw. Given an 11 -12% difference in density, this requires both measurements accurate to under 5%. This is probably feasible for diameter, but wall thickness of a small-diameter straw would be challenging.
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– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
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@WhatRoughBeast volume of a body can be measured more accurately by submerging it in water in graduated cylinder.
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– Ján Lalinský
2 days ago
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Measuring the volume of a drinking straw to much better than 10% by looking at liquid displacement might be trickier than your think.
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– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
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Also, while I am an unabashed geek, I don't have a graduated cylinder in my home, so I'm dubious that this meets the "home environment" spec.
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– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
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You can also use a (water resistant) scale to measure the displacement by spilling the displaced water. Put a container on the scale and fill it until it overflows, carefully remove the spill with a towel and note the weight. Then slowly drop in the object, remove the new spill and weigh again. The difference will be the weight of the object minus the weight of the displaced water (which in grams is conveniently equal to its volume in milliliters). Also personally I would recommend shouting "Eureka!" while doing so, just for a sense of tradition.
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– mlk
2 days ago
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What about Eddy currents? If you've got a pair of strong neodymium magnets (doesn't everyone?) - move the straw in between two magnets with their poles opposing. Copper/Aluminum will have a strong interaction and you'll feel some kind of resistance or tugging (not unlike moving it through a thick fluid). Stainless steel won't produce any such effect.
Disclaimer: I've run this experiment with solid slugs/pucks of copper, aluminium, nickel, chrome-plated steel, and #316 stainless in our shop. I haven't tested with hollow cylinders like a straw.
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"doesn't everyone?" - at least among the visitors on this site ;)Nice idea!
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– elzell
7 hours ago
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To see if the straw is stainless steel with a copper-colored coating, you can carefully sand or file off a bit of material from the end of the straw and see whether or not it is copper-colored throughout its thickness.
To see if the straw really is copper, dip one end of it in a boiling solution of 1/4 cup white vinegar and 1 teaspoon of salt. This mixture is commonly used to remove tarnish from copper objects and will quickly make the end of the straw very bright and shiny. Stainless steel will be unaffected (i.e., not brightened) by this.
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Note that the second test would not distinguish between a copper straw and a copper-plated steel straw.
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– Michael Seifert
2 days ago
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This completely ignores the range of possible treatments available to color stainless. For instance, PVD stainless coloring uses a titanium/nitrogen process - how will such a layer react to vinegar/salt? If this process is amenable, there are lots of others.
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– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
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You can measure the voltage when immersing the sample as an electrode into lemon juice or salty water and use known steel or known copper as the other electrode of a galvanic cell. Better use pure copper as the other electrode as different steels have different electrochemical properties. Some uncertainty, whether you don't just have steel with the same electrode potential as copper, may remain.
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Since the straw is "copper-colored", the reaction will be with the surface coating. Unless you know what the coating is (and it's entirely possible that the straw is copper-plated) you can't interpret the results.
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– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
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And who has a tester at home? ;)
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– Alchimista
2 days ago
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This won't work if the copper is coated in a protective layer, eg of lacquer or clear enamel. And if it isn't coated, it will have a distinctive taste, and it'll tarnish pretty quickly.
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– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
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@WhatRoughBeast I missed that bit, it is quite obvious that this method works with the surface. Anyway, I used this method with a great success at high school when we were mailed a small piece of metal a metal wire and were to determine the composition with as many methods as possible. It was silver. Some other answers on this page require removing the coating as well.
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– Vladimir F
2 days ago
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@Alchimista almost anyone? We always used to have one, it's indispensable when something breaks. I also remember buying one to my friends as a requested a wedding present, it is a must have home item.
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– Vladimir F
2 days ago
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Here's an idea (this is not my area however): Consider using the difference in resonant frequency. This depends on length ($L$), Young's Modulus ($E$), mass per length ($M/L$, requires mass of straw, likely found from manufacturer or else use e.g. a food scale) and second moment of inertia ($I$, area moment, unique to the geometry, a tube of known inner and outer diameter can be calculated). Copper has $E = 36times 10^6$ PSI, stainless steel (according to Engineering Toolbox) has $E = 26 times 10^6$ PSI.
For a tube of inner diameter ID and outer diameter OD, the second moment is
$$ I=frac{pi (OD^4 - ID^4)}{64} $$
Note that those are fourth powers of the inner and outer diameter.
For $E$ in PSI (pound-force per square inch), $L$ in inches ($text{in}$), $I$ in $text{in}^4$, and $M$ in $text{lbm}$ (pound-mass), for a simply supported straw (note: length is length from support to support), we can calculate the resonant frequency by (source):
$$ f = frac{pi}{2 L^2}sqrt{frac{EI}{M/L}} $$
Where $f$ is the frequency in $text{Hz}$.
The challenge might be supporting the tube properly, maybe fix the ends internally, or with some steel wire (or paperclips). The resonant frequency can (hopefully) be measured by your phone, with an audio spectrum analyzer.
For an example, consider this straw from Amazon. $OD = 0.3125text{ in}$, assume $ID = 0.3text{ in}$ for sake of example, $L = 8.5text{ in}$, and let $M = 0.01text{ lbm}$ (product net wt, not sure what packaging it has). It's made of food-grade steel (18/10, 303 grade) with $E = 27-29times 10^6text{ PSI}$. The second moment is calculated to be $I = 0.00017text{ in}^4$. Assuming the straw is ideally supported, the stainless steel straw would have a resonant frequency around $43-44text{ Hz}$, while a copper straw would have a resonant frequency of around $49text{ Hz}$, assuming I haven't made a mistake in my calculations.
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Touch it with a magnet. Steel is magnetic. Copper is not.
New contributor
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Stainless steel often isn't magnetic at all, so nope. If it is magnetic, it's likely some kind of steel, but if it's not, it doesn't tell you anything.
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– Luaan
Jan 22 at 11:54
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You are correct. Apparently the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added.
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– Crisp
Jan 22 at 12:06
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Good stainless steel is not magnetic. However, sometimes stainless steels can be a little magnetic, specially when they have been worked, bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=24 . Although non being magnetic isn't reason enough to rule out stainless steel, being a little magnetic can be a reason to rule out copper.
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– Pere
Jan 22 at 14:34
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Despite the fact that it may not work with all possible steels, if you perceive a force than there should definitely be ferritic steel and not only copper. In this case this test is the simplest of all those presented here.
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– lcv
2 days ago
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400 series SS is magnetic, but to different degrees depending on how it's alloyed. 300 series is non-magnetic.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
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Copper is much more malleable and ductile than stainless steel, so a very simple but possibly destructive test would be to try bending the straw with your fingers.
A copper-plated steel straw will still have the strength of steel. A solid copper straw would be much softer and easily bent.
For comparison, try bending a paperclip, then try bending a piece of copper wire the same thickness as the paperclip. The difference is very noticeable.
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try squeezing it?
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– htmlcoderexe
yesterday
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Taste it, copper and stainless steel taste nothing a like.
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Agreed, but if it is copper, it probably has a coating to reduce chemical reactions.
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– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
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Yeah but you can scratch that off on a small spot with your thumb nail and just taste it, and that would be a good way to see if they did put a coating on the stainless steel as well.
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– Michael H.
2 days ago
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@MichaelH. Agreed. Also, copper has a unique odor. Ask any experienced machinist or toolmaker. My freshman year at Macomber VTHS machine shop, the teacher taught us boys how different materials smell.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned hardness, since this is what metallurgists and machinists would use. Basically, you can buy sets of files made out of different grades of known metal hardness. If the file scuffs the metal, the metal is softer than the file. If the file doesn't scuff the metal, instead the metal smooths down the file, the metal is harder than the file. You work down from the hardest file in the set down to the softest, until you don't see any more scuffing, and bingo, that gives you the hardness of the metal, with some degree of accuracy.
Having said that, steel is typically so much harder than copper, that it should be incredibly obvious from using ANY steel file, whether you are struggling to cut through steel, or chew right through copper. Copper is so soft you can usually bite it and leave a mark, although this isn't recommended. Use a file to do the biting for you.
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You might want to try soldering - If the solder drop attaches easily to the straw it's copper.
This is somewhat destructive of course, but since others pointed out, that copper is unsafe to drink from, you would want to throw it away anyway.
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Nice idea except it doesn't rule out copper plating.
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– Chris H
yesterday
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This is prone to false positives (copper-plated steel) and false negatives (varnished copper).
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– Mark
yesterday
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11 Answers
11
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11 Answers
11
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Take advantage of the large difference in thermal conductivity between copper and stainless steel (approximately $400$ and $16$ $mathrm{Wm^{-1}K^{-1}}$ respectively). If you put one end of a metal rod into contact with something held at a constant high or low temperature $T_C$, you would expect the other end to asymptotically approach that temperature like:
$$
T(t) sim T_C + A e^{-lambda t}
$$
where
$$
lambda = frac{k}{rho c_p L^2}
$$
where $k$ is the thermal heat conductivity, $rho$ is the mass density, $c_p$ is the specific heat capacity and $L$ is the length of the metal rod.
Assuming the straw is approximately $0.1$ m long, you should get $lambda$ values of approximately $0.011$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for copper and approximately $0.0004$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for stainless steel.
A simple experiment would consist of putting one end of the your straw into contact with a container of ice water, or maybe a pot of boiling water, while you carefully measure and record the temperature at the other end as a function of time. (If the straw is longer than $0.1$ m, immerse the extra length of the straw into the water.) The best thing would be if you had some kind of digital thermometer that allows you to log data, but it could probably also be done with an analog thermometer, a clock, and a notebook. After taking the measurements it should be relatively easy to determine weather the temperature difference decreases with a half-life of one minute or half an hour.
There are many potential error sources in a simple experiment like this, but since the difference between copper and stainless steel is more than an order of magnitude, it should be relatively easy to tell them apart despite these errors. The experiment could also be carried out for other rods that are known to be made of copper or stainless steel (or of some other metal), to validate that the experiment gives approximately the expected result for them.
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I think this is a great idea. It's not possible to hand-hold a copper item when it is placed in a flame a few inches away from the fingers, but it is not a problem with a stainless steel item. Now in order to be non-destructive one may want to reduce the heat to, say, boiling oil, but that should suffice. Best would be to have a similar comparison item of either steel or copper; a known steel straw should be possible to come by.
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– Peter A. Schneider
Jan 22 at 14:05
2
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@PeterA.Schneider I agree. There are many possible experiments along these lines that could be made. And the comparison item(s) doesn't really have to very similar in shape or size. The time scale of heat conduction only depends on material constants and the distance.
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– jkej
2 days ago
1
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I think my concern with this suggestion is the coating. This is either copper or stainless steel with an unknown coating. I suspect that the coating could easily alter the thermal conductivity. In particular, it probably makes it slower, which might make it more closely resemble copper. You could end up with a false positive.
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– conman
2 days ago
6
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@conman I would think that the influence of the coating is negligible, unless it's very thick, which seems unlikely.
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– jkej
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@conman all plausible coating/surface finish processes will affect only a thin (w.r.t the likely wall thickness) surface layer, so the thermal conductivity difference should be clear. Whether you could tell copper from aluminium that way is another matter, but density should do that (I've seen anodised aluminium utensils so wouldn't rule them out given the possibility of a misleading seller)
$endgroup$
– Chris H
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Take advantage of the large difference in thermal conductivity between copper and stainless steel (approximately $400$ and $16$ $mathrm{Wm^{-1}K^{-1}}$ respectively). If you put one end of a metal rod into contact with something held at a constant high or low temperature $T_C$, you would expect the other end to asymptotically approach that temperature like:
$$
T(t) sim T_C + A e^{-lambda t}
$$
where
$$
lambda = frac{k}{rho c_p L^2}
$$
where $k$ is the thermal heat conductivity, $rho$ is the mass density, $c_p$ is the specific heat capacity and $L$ is the length of the metal rod.
Assuming the straw is approximately $0.1$ m long, you should get $lambda$ values of approximately $0.011$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for copper and approximately $0.0004$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for stainless steel.
A simple experiment would consist of putting one end of the your straw into contact with a container of ice water, or maybe a pot of boiling water, while you carefully measure and record the temperature at the other end as a function of time. (If the straw is longer than $0.1$ m, immerse the extra length of the straw into the water.) The best thing would be if you had some kind of digital thermometer that allows you to log data, but it could probably also be done with an analog thermometer, a clock, and a notebook. After taking the measurements it should be relatively easy to determine weather the temperature difference decreases with a half-life of one minute or half an hour.
There are many potential error sources in a simple experiment like this, but since the difference between copper and stainless steel is more than an order of magnitude, it should be relatively easy to tell them apart despite these errors. The experiment could also be carried out for other rods that are known to be made of copper or stainless steel (or of some other metal), to validate that the experiment gives approximately the expected result for them.
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
I think this is a great idea. It's not possible to hand-hold a copper item when it is placed in a flame a few inches away from the fingers, but it is not a problem with a stainless steel item. Now in order to be non-destructive one may want to reduce the heat to, say, boiling oil, but that should suffice. Best would be to have a similar comparison item of either steel or copper; a known steel straw should be possible to come by.
$endgroup$
– Peter A. Schneider
Jan 22 at 14:05
2
$begingroup$
@PeterA.Schneider I agree. There are many possible experiments along these lines that could be made. And the comparison item(s) doesn't really have to very similar in shape or size. The time scale of heat conduction only depends on material constants and the distance.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
I think my concern with this suggestion is the coating. This is either copper or stainless steel with an unknown coating. I suspect that the coating could easily alter the thermal conductivity. In particular, it probably makes it slower, which might make it more closely resemble copper. You could end up with a false positive.
$endgroup$
– conman
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
@conman I would think that the influence of the coating is negligible, unless it's very thick, which seems unlikely.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@conman all plausible coating/surface finish processes will affect only a thin (w.r.t the likely wall thickness) surface layer, so the thermal conductivity difference should be clear. Whether you could tell copper from aluminium that way is another matter, but density should do that (I've seen anodised aluminium utensils so wouldn't rule them out given the possibility of a misleading seller)
$endgroup$
– Chris H
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Take advantage of the large difference in thermal conductivity between copper and stainless steel (approximately $400$ and $16$ $mathrm{Wm^{-1}K^{-1}}$ respectively). If you put one end of a metal rod into contact with something held at a constant high or low temperature $T_C$, you would expect the other end to asymptotically approach that temperature like:
$$
T(t) sim T_C + A e^{-lambda t}
$$
where
$$
lambda = frac{k}{rho c_p L^2}
$$
where $k$ is the thermal heat conductivity, $rho$ is the mass density, $c_p$ is the specific heat capacity and $L$ is the length of the metal rod.
Assuming the straw is approximately $0.1$ m long, you should get $lambda$ values of approximately $0.011$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for copper and approximately $0.0004$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for stainless steel.
A simple experiment would consist of putting one end of the your straw into contact with a container of ice water, or maybe a pot of boiling water, while you carefully measure and record the temperature at the other end as a function of time. (If the straw is longer than $0.1$ m, immerse the extra length of the straw into the water.) The best thing would be if you had some kind of digital thermometer that allows you to log data, but it could probably also be done with an analog thermometer, a clock, and a notebook. After taking the measurements it should be relatively easy to determine weather the temperature difference decreases with a half-life of one minute or half an hour.
There are many potential error sources in a simple experiment like this, but since the difference between copper and stainless steel is more than an order of magnitude, it should be relatively easy to tell them apart despite these errors. The experiment could also be carried out for other rods that are known to be made of copper or stainless steel (or of some other metal), to validate that the experiment gives approximately the expected result for them.
$endgroup$
Take advantage of the large difference in thermal conductivity between copper and stainless steel (approximately $400$ and $16$ $mathrm{Wm^{-1}K^{-1}}$ respectively). If you put one end of a metal rod into contact with something held at a constant high or low temperature $T_C$, you would expect the other end to asymptotically approach that temperature like:
$$
T(t) sim T_C + A e^{-lambda t}
$$
where
$$
lambda = frac{k}{rho c_p L^2}
$$
where $k$ is the thermal heat conductivity, $rho$ is the mass density, $c_p$ is the specific heat capacity and $L$ is the length of the metal rod.
Assuming the straw is approximately $0.1$ m long, you should get $lambda$ values of approximately $0.011$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for copper and approximately $0.0004$ $mathrm{s^{-1}}$ for stainless steel.
A simple experiment would consist of putting one end of the your straw into contact with a container of ice water, or maybe a pot of boiling water, while you carefully measure and record the temperature at the other end as a function of time. (If the straw is longer than $0.1$ m, immerse the extra length of the straw into the water.) The best thing would be if you had some kind of digital thermometer that allows you to log data, but it could probably also be done with an analog thermometer, a clock, and a notebook. After taking the measurements it should be relatively easy to determine weather the temperature difference decreases with a half-life of one minute or half an hour.
There are many potential error sources in a simple experiment like this, but since the difference between copper and stainless steel is more than an order of magnitude, it should be relatively easy to tell them apart despite these errors. The experiment could also be carried out for other rods that are known to be made of copper or stainless steel (or of some other metal), to validate that the experiment gives approximately the expected result for them.
edited 2 days ago
answered Jan 22 at 12:48
jkejjkej
4,6771329
4,6771329
7
$begingroup$
I think this is a great idea. It's not possible to hand-hold a copper item when it is placed in a flame a few inches away from the fingers, but it is not a problem with a stainless steel item. Now in order to be non-destructive one may want to reduce the heat to, say, boiling oil, but that should suffice. Best would be to have a similar comparison item of either steel or copper; a known steel straw should be possible to come by.
$endgroup$
– Peter A. Schneider
Jan 22 at 14:05
2
$begingroup$
@PeterA.Schneider I agree. There are many possible experiments along these lines that could be made. And the comparison item(s) doesn't really have to very similar in shape or size. The time scale of heat conduction only depends on material constants and the distance.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
I think my concern with this suggestion is the coating. This is either copper or stainless steel with an unknown coating. I suspect that the coating could easily alter the thermal conductivity. In particular, it probably makes it slower, which might make it more closely resemble copper. You could end up with a false positive.
$endgroup$
– conman
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
@conman I would think that the influence of the coating is negligible, unless it's very thick, which seems unlikely.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@conman all plausible coating/surface finish processes will affect only a thin (w.r.t the likely wall thickness) surface layer, so the thermal conductivity difference should be clear. Whether you could tell copper from aluminium that way is another matter, but density should do that (I've seen anodised aluminium utensils so wouldn't rule them out given the possibility of a misleading seller)
$endgroup$
– Chris H
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
7
$begingroup$
I think this is a great idea. It's not possible to hand-hold a copper item when it is placed in a flame a few inches away from the fingers, but it is not a problem with a stainless steel item. Now in order to be non-destructive one may want to reduce the heat to, say, boiling oil, but that should suffice. Best would be to have a similar comparison item of either steel or copper; a known steel straw should be possible to come by.
$endgroup$
– Peter A. Schneider
Jan 22 at 14:05
2
$begingroup$
@PeterA.Schneider I agree. There are many possible experiments along these lines that could be made. And the comparison item(s) doesn't really have to very similar in shape or size. The time scale of heat conduction only depends on material constants and the distance.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
I think my concern with this suggestion is the coating. This is either copper or stainless steel with an unknown coating. I suspect that the coating could easily alter the thermal conductivity. In particular, it probably makes it slower, which might make it more closely resemble copper. You could end up with a false positive.
$endgroup$
– conman
2 days ago
6
$begingroup$
@conman I would think that the influence of the coating is negligible, unless it's very thick, which seems unlikely.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@conman all plausible coating/surface finish processes will affect only a thin (w.r.t the likely wall thickness) surface layer, so the thermal conductivity difference should be clear. Whether you could tell copper from aluminium that way is another matter, but density should do that (I've seen anodised aluminium utensils so wouldn't rule them out given the possibility of a misleading seller)
$endgroup$
– Chris H
yesterday
7
7
$begingroup$
I think this is a great idea. It's not possible to hand-hold a copper item when it is placed in a flame a few inches away from the fingers, but it is not a problem with a stainless steel item. Now in order to be non-destructive one may want to reduce the heat to, say, boiling oil, but that should suffice. Best would be to have a similar comparison item of either steel or copper; a known steel straw should be possible to come by.
$endgroup$
– Peter A. Schneider
Jan 22 at 14:05
$begingroup$
I think this is a great idea. It's not possible to hand-hold a copper item when it is placed in a flame a few inches away from the fingers, but it is not a problem with a stainless steel item. Now in order to be non-destructive one may want to reduce the heat to, say, boiling oil, but that should suffice. Best would be to have a similar comparison item of either steel or copper; a known steel straw should be possible to come by.
$endgroup$
– Peter A. Schneider
Jan 22 at 14:05
2
2
$begingroup$
@PeterA.Schneider I agree. There are many possible experiments along these lines that could be made. And the comparison item(s) doesn't really have to very similar in shape or size. The time scale of heat conduction only depends on material constants and the distance.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@PeterA.Schneider I agree. There are many possible experiments along these lines that could be made. And the comparison item(s) doesn't really have to very similar in shape or size. The time scale of heat conduction only depends on material constants and the distance.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
I think my concern with this suggestion is the coating. This is either copper or stainless steel with an unknown coating. I suspect that the coating could easily alter the thermal conductivity. In particular, it probably makes it slower, which might make it more closely resemble copper. You could end up with a false positive.
$endgroup$
– conman
2 days ago
$begingroup$
I think my concern with this suggestion is the coating. This is either copper or stainless steel with an unknown coating. I suspect that the coating could easily alter the thermal conductivity. In particular, it probably makes it slower, which might make it more closely resemble copper. You could end up with a false positive.
$endgroup$
– conman
2 days ago
6
6
$begingroup$
@conman I would think that the influence of the coating is negligible, unless it's very thick, which seems unlikely.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@conman I would think that the influence of the coating is negligible, unless it's very thick, which seems unlikely.
$endgroup$
– jkej
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@conman all plausible coating/surface finish processes will affect only a thin (w.r.t the likely wall thickness) surface layer, so the thermal conductivity difference should be clear. Whether you could tell copper from aluminium that way is another matter, but density should do that (I've seen anodised aluminium utensils so wouldn't rule them out given the possibility of a misleading seller)
$endgroup$
– Chris H
yesterday
$begingroup$
@conman all plausible coating/surface finish processes will affect only a thin (w.r.t the likely wall thickness) surface layer, so the thermal conductivity difference should be clear. Whether you could tell copper from aluminium that way is another matter, but density should do that (I've seen anodised aluminium utensils so wouldn't rule them out given the possibility of a misleading seller)
$endgroup$
– Chris H
yesterday
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Why not density? At least for a quick check and as for the title question. You are dealing with about < 8 and 9 g per cubic cm, respectively for steel and copper.
Not overly laborious and especially non destructive at all.
To measure the volume you can submerge the object in the narrow container of your kitchen. If isn't graduated you just mark the displacement. The same with a graduated one for better precision. Collect that volume of water and move to a kitchen scale. As for you can weight the object as well, the experimental part is over.
Also note that as it is a straw it could also be possible to measure the thickness of the wall. So you calculate the volume. A caliper might be uncommon at home (incidentally I have one) but it remains a possibility. Inner diameter then is measured by passing/non passing wires. This might be tedious.
Indeed a straw complicates the procedure as its volume brings things down to ten grams or so.
See also the comment of Andrew Morton below. Having a dietary scale and using his trick he did indeed identified the nature of a straw.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
The laborious part is determining the volume of the straw. Essentially, this requires measuring the wall thickness and diameter of the straw. Given an 11 -12% difference in density, this requires both measurements accurate to under 5%. This is probably feasible for diameter, but wall thickness of a small-diameter straw would be challenging.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
13
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast volume of a body can be measured more accurately by submerging it in water in graduated cylinder.
$endgroup$
– Ján Lalinský
2 days ago
9
$begingroup$
Measuring the volume of a drinking straw to much better than 10% by looking at liquid displacement might be trickier than your think.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Also, while I am an unabashed geek, I don't have a graduated cylinder in my home, so I'm dubious that this meets the "home environment" spec.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
8
$begingroup$
You can also use a (water resistant) scale to measure the displacement by spilling the displaced water. Put a container on the scale and fill it until it overflows, carefully remove the spill with a towel and note the weight. Then slowly drop in the object, remove the new spill and weigh again. The difference will be the weight of the object minus the weight of the displaced water (which in grams is conveniently equal to its volume in milliliters). Also personally I would recommend shouting "Eureka!" while doing so, just for a sense of tradition.
$endgroup$
– mlk
2 days ago
|
show 14 more comments
$begingroup$
Why not density? At least for a quick check and as for the title question. You are dealing with about < 8 and 9 g per cubic cm, respectively for steel and copper.
Not overly laborious and especially non destructive at all.
To measure the volume you can submerge the object in the narrow container of your kitchen. If isn't graduated you just mark the displacement. The same with a graduated one for better precision. Collect that volume of water and move to a kitchen scale. As for you can weight the object as well, the experimental part is over.
Also note that as it is a straw it could also be possible to measure the thickness of the wall. So you calculate the volume. A caliper might be uncommon at home (incidentally I have one) but it remains a possibility. Inner diameter then is measured by passing/non passing wires. This might be tedious.
Indeed a straw complicates the procedure as its volume brings things down to ten grams or so.
See also the comment of Andrew Morton below. Having a dietary scale and using his trick he did indeed identified the nature of a straw.
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
The laborious part is determining the volume of the straw. Essentially, this requires measuring the wall thickness and diameter of the straw. Given an 11 -12% difference in density, this requires both measurements accurate to under 5%. This is probably feasible for diameter, but wall thickness of a small-diameter straw would be challenging.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
13
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast volume of a body can be measured more accurately by submerging it in water in graduated cylinder.
$endgroup$
– Ján Lalinský
2 days ago
9
$begingroup$
Measuring the volume of a drinking straw to much better than 10% by looking at liquid displacement might be trickier than your think.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Also, while I am an unabashed geek, I don't have a graduated cylinder in my home, so I'm dubious that this meets the "home environment" spec.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
8
$begingroup$
You can also use a (water resistant) scale to measure the displacement by spilling the displaced water. Put a container on the scale and fill it until it overflows, carefully remove the spill with a towel and note the weight. Then slowly drop in the object, remove the new spill and weigh again. The difference will be the weight of the object minus the weight of the displaced water (which in grams is conveniently equal to its volume in milliliters). Also personally I would recommend shouting "Eureka!" while doing so, just for a sense of tradition.
$endgroup$
– mlk
2 days ago
|
show 14 more comments
$begingroup$
Why not density? At least for a quick check and as for the title question. You are dealing with about < 8 and 9 g per cubic cm, respectively for steel and copper.
Not overly laborious and especially non destructive at all.
To measure the volume you can submerge the object in the narrow container of your kitchen. If isn't graduated you just mark the displacement. The same with a graduated one for better precision. Collect that volume of water and move to a kitchen scale. As for you can weight the object as well, the experimental part is over.
Also note that as it is a straw it could also be possible to measure the thickness of the wall. So you calculate the volume. A caliper might be uncommon at home (incidentally I have one) but it remains a possibility. Inner diameter then is measured by passing/non passing wires. This might be tedious.
Indeed a straw complicates the procedure as its volume brings things down to ten grams or so.
See also the comment of Andrew Morton below. Having a dietary scale and using his trick he did indeed identified the nature of a straw.
$endgroup$
Why not density? At least for a quick check and as for the title question. You are dealing with about < 8 and 9 g per cubic cm, respectively for steel and copper.
Not overly laborious and especially non destructive at all.
To measure the volume you can submerge the object in the narrow container of your kitchen. If isn't graduated you just mark the displacement. The same with a graduated one for better precision. Collect that volume of water and move to a kitchen scale. As for you can weight the object as well, the experimental part is over.
Also note that as it is a straw it could also be possible to measure the thickness of the wall. So you calculate the volume. A caliper might be uncommon at home (incidentally I have one) but it remains a possibility. Inner diameter then is measured by passing/non passing wires. This might be tedious.
Indeed a straw complicates the procedure as its volume brings things down to ten grams or so.
See also the comment of Andrew Morton below. Having a dietary scale and using his trick he did indeed identified the nature of a straw.
edited yesterday
answered Jan 22 at 10:37
AlchimistaAlchimista
622410
622410
3
$begingroup$
The laborious part is determining the volume of the straw. Essentially, this requires measuring the wall thickness and diameter of the straw. Given an 11 -12% difference in density, this requires both measurements accurate to under 5%. This is probably feasible for diameter, but wall thickness of a small-diameter straw would be challenging.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
13
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast volume of a body can be measured more accurately by submerging it in water in graduated cylinder.
$endgroup$
– Ján Lalinský
2 days ago
9
$begingroup$
Measuring the volume of a drinking straw to much better than 10% by looking at liquid displacement might be trickier than your think.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Also, while I am an unabashed geek, I don't have a graduated cylinder in my home, so I'm dubious that this meets the "home environment" spec.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
8
$begingroup$
You can also use a (water resistant) scale to measure the displacement by spilling the displaced water. Put a container on the scale and fill it until it overflows, carefully remove the spill with a towel and note the weight. Then slowly drop in the object, remove the new spill and weigh again. The difference will be the weight of the object minus the weight of the displaced water (which in grams is conveniently equal to its volume in milliliters). Also personally I would recommend shouting "Eureka!" while doing so, just for a sense of tradition.
$endgroup$
– mlk
2 days ago
|
show 14 more comments
3
$begingroup$
The laborious part is determining the volume of the straw. Essentially, this requires measuring the wall thickness and diameter of the straw. Given an 11 -12% difference in density, this requires both measurements accurate to under 5%. This is probably feasible for diameter, but wall thickness of a small-diameter straw would be challenging.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
13
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast volume of a body can be measured more accurately by submerging it in water in graduated cylinder.
$endgroup$
– Ján Lalinský
2 days ago
9
$begingroup$
Measuring the volume of a drinking straw to much better than 10% by looking at liquid displacement might be trickier than your think.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
Also, while I am an unabashed geek, I don't have a graduated cylinder in my home, so I'm dubious that this meets the "home environment" spec.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
8
$begingroup$
You can also use a (water resistant) scale to measure the displacement by spilling the displaced water. Put a container on the scale and fill it until it overflows, carefully remove the spill with a towel and note the weight. Then slowly drop in the object, remove the new spill and weigh again. The difference will be the weight of the object minus the weight of the displaced water (which in grams is conveniently equal to its volume in milliliters). Also personally I would recommend shouting "Eureka!" while doing so, just for a sense of tradition.
$endgroup$
– mlk
2 days ago
3
3
$begingroup$
The laborious part is determining the volume of the straw. Essentially, this requires measuring the wall thickness and diameter of the straw. Given an 11 -12% difference in density, this requires both measurements accurate to under 5%. This is probably feasible for diameter, but wall thickness of a small-diameter straw would be challenging.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
The laborious part is determining the volume of the straw. Essentially, this requires measuring the wall thickness and diameter of the straw. Given an 11 -12% difference in density, this requires both measurements accurate to under 5%. This is probably feasible for diameter, but wall thickness of a small-diameter straw would be challenging.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
13
13
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast volume of a body can be measured more accurately by submerging it in water in graduated cylinder.
$endgroup$
– Ján Lalinský
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast volume of a body can be measured more accurately by submerging it in water in graduated cylinder.
$endgroup$
– Ján Lalinský
2 days ago
9
9
$begingroup$
Measuring the volume of a drinking straw to much better than 10% by looking at liquid displacement might be trickier than your think.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Measuring the volume of a drinking straw to much better than 10% by looking at liquid displacement might be trickier than your think.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Also, while I am an unabashed geek, I don't have a graduated cylinder in my home, so I'm dubious that this meets the "home environment" spec.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Also, while I am an unabashed geek, I don't have a graduated cylinder in my home, so I'm dubious that this meets the "home environment" spec.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
8
8
$begingroup$
You can also use a (water resistant) scale to measure the displacement by spilling the displaced water. Put a container on the scale and fill it until it overflows, carefully remove the spill with a towel and note the weight. Then slowly drop in the object, remove the new spill and weigh again. The difference will be the weight of the object minus the weight of the displaced water (which in grams is conveniently equal to its volume in milliliters). Also personally I would recommend shouting "Eureka!" while doing so, just for a sense of tradition.
$endgroup$
– mlk
2 days ago
$begingroup$
You can also use a (water resistant) scale to measure the displacement by spilling the displaced water. Put a container on the scale and fill it until it overflows, carefully remove the spill with a towel and note the weight. Then slowly drop in the object, remove the new spill and weigh again. The difference will be the weight of the object minus the weight of the displaced water (which in grams is conveniently equal to its volume in milliliters). Also personally I would recommend shouting "Eureka!" while doing so, just for a sense of tradition.
$endgroup$
– mlk
2 days ago
|
show 14 more comments
$begingroup$
What about Eddy currents? If you've got a pair of strong neodymium magnets (doesn't everyone?) - move the straw in between two magnets with their poles opposing. Copper/Aluminum will have a strong interaction and you'll feel some kind of resistance or tugging (not unlike moving it through a thick fluid). Stainless steel won't produce any such effect.
Disclaimer: I've run this experiment with solid slugs/pucks of copper, aluminium, nickel, chrome-plated steel, and #316 stainless in our shop. I haven't tested with hollow cylinders like a straw.
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"doesn't everyone?" - at least among the visitors on this site ;)Nice idea!
$endgroup$
– elzell
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What about Eddy currents? If you've got a pair of strong neodymium magnets (doesn't everyone?) - move the straw in between two magnets with their poles opposing. Copper/Aluminum will have a strong interaction and you'll feel some kind of resistance or tugging (not unlike moving it through a thick fluid). Stainless steel won't produce any such effect.
Disclaimer: I've run this experiment with solid slugs/pucks of copper, aluminium, nickel, chrome-plated steel, and #316 stainless in our shop. I haven't tested with hollow cylinders like a straw.
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"doesn't everyone?" - at least among the visitors on this site ;)Nice idea!
$endgroup$
– elzell
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What about Eddy currents? If you've got a pair of strong neodymium magnets (doesn't everyone?) - move the straw in between two magnets with their poles opposing. Copper/Aluminum will have a strong interaction and you'll feel some kind of resistance or tugging (not unlike moving it through a thick fluid). Stainless steel won't produce any such effect.
Disclaimer: I've run this experiment with solid slugs/pucks of copper, aluminium, nickel, chrome-plated steel, and #316 stainless in our shop. I haven't tested with hollow cylinders like a straw.
New contributor
$endgroup$
What about Eddy currents? If you've got a pair of strong neodymium magnets (doesn't everyone?) - move the straw in between two magnets with their poles opposing. Copper/Aluminum will have a strong interaction and you'll feel some kind of resistance or tugging (not unlike moving it through a thick fluid). Stainless steel won't produce any such effect.
Disclaimer: I've run this experiment with solid slugs/pucks of copper, aluminium, nickel, chrome-plated steel, and #316 stainless in our shop. I haven't tested with hollow cylinders like a straw.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
user3772748user3772748
1612
1612
New contributor
New contributor
$begingroup$
"doesn't everyone?" - at least among the visitors on this site ;)Nice idea!
$endgroup$
– elzell
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
"doesn't everyone?" - at least among the visitors on this site ;)Nice idea!
$endgroup$
– elzell
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
"doesn't everyone?" - at least among the visitors on this site ;)Nice idea!
$endgroup$
– elzell
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
"doesn't everyone?" - at least among the visitors on this site ;)Nice idea!
$endgroup$
– elzell
7 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To see if the straw is stainless steel with a copper-colored coating, you can carefully sand or file off a bit of material from the end of the straw and see whether or not it is copper-colored throughout its thickness.
To see if the straw really is copper, dip one end of it in a boiling solution of 1/4 cup white vinegar and 1 teaspoon of salt. This mixture is commonly used to remove tarnish from copper objects and will quickly make the end of the straw very bright and shiny. Stainless steel will be unaffected (i.e., not brightened) by this.
$endgroup$
6
$begingroup$
Note that the second test would not distinguish between a copper straw and a copper-plated steel straw.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
This completely ignores the range of possible treatments available to color stainless. For instance, PVD stainless coloring uses a titanium/nitrogen process - how will such a layer react to vinegar/salt? If this process is amenable, there are lots of others.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To see if the straw is stainless steel with a copper-colored coating, you can carefully sand or file off a bit of material from the end of the straw and see whether or not it is copper-colored throughout its thickness.
To see if the straw really is copper, dip one end of it in a boiling solution of 1/4 cup white vinegar and 1 teaspoon of salt. This mixture is commonly used to remove tarnish from copper objects and will quickly make the end of the straw very bright and shiny. Stainless steel will be unaffected (i.e., not brightened) by this.
$endgroup$
6
$begingroup$
Note that the second test would not distinguish between a copper straw and a copper-plated steel straw.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
This completely ignores the range of possible treatments available to color stainless. For instance, PVD stainless coloring uses a titanium/nitrogen process - how will such a layer react to vinegar/salt? If this process is amenable, there are lots of others.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To see if the straw is stainless steel with a copper-colored coating, you can carefully sand or file off a bit of material from the end of the straw and see whether or not it is copper-colored throughout its thickness.
To see if the straw really is copper, dip one end of it in a boiling solution of 1/4 cup white vinegar and 1 teaspoon of salt. This mixture is commonly used to remove tarnish from copper objects and will quickly make the end of the straw very bright and shiny. Stainless steel will be unaffected (i.e., not brightened) by this.
$endgroup$
To see if the straw is stainless steel with a copper-colored coating, you can carefully sand or file off a bit of material from the end of the straw and see whether or not it is copper-colored throughout its thickness.
To see if the straw really is copper, dip one end of it in a boiling solution of 1/4 cup white vinegar and 1 teaspoon of salt. This mixture is commonly used to remove tarnish from copper objects and will quickly make the end of the straw very bright and shiny. Stainless steel will be unaffected (i.e., not brightened) by this.
answered Jan 22 at 6:07
niels nielsenniels nielsen
17.7k42757
17.7k42757
6
$begingroup$
Note that the second test would not distinguish between a copper straw and a copper-plated steel straw.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
This completely ignores the range of possible treatments available to color stainless. For instance, PVD stainless coloring uses a titanium/nitrogen process - how will such a layer react to vinegar/salt? If this process is amenable, there are lots of others.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
add a comment |
6
$begingroup$
Note that the second test would not distinguish between a copper straw and a copper-plated steel straw.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
This completely ignores the range of possible treatments available to color stainless. For instance, PVD stainless coloring uses a titanium/nitrogen process - how will such a layer react to vinegar/salt? If this process is amenable, there are lots of others.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
6
6
$begingroup$
Note that the second test would not distinguish between a copper straw and a copper-plated steel straw.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Note that the second test would not distinguish between a copper straw and a copper-plated steel straw.
$endgroup$
– Michael Seifert
2 days ago
3
3
$begingroup$
This completely ignores the range of possible treatments available to color stainless. For instance, PVD stainless coloring uses a titanium/nitrogen process - how will such a layer react to vinegar/salt? If this process is amenable, there are lots of others.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
This completely ignores the range of possible treatments available to color stainless. For instance, PVD stainless coloring uses a titanium/nitrogen process - how will such a layer react to vinegar/salt? If this process is amenable, there are lots of others.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can measure the voltage when immersing the sample as an electrode into lemon juice or salty water and use known steel or known copper as the other electrode of a galvanic cell. Better use pure copper as the other electrode as different steels have different electrochemical properties. Some uncertainty, whether you don't just have steel with the same electrode potential as copper, may remain.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Since the straw is "copper-colored", the reaction will be with the surface coating. Unless you know what the coating is (and it's entirely possible that the straw is copper-plated) you can't interpret the results.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
And who has a tester at home? ;)
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
This won't work if the copper is coated in a protective layer, eg of lacquer or clear enamel. And if it isn't coated, it will have a distinctive taste, and it'll tarnish pretty quickly.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast I missed that bit, it is quite obvious that this method works with the surface. Anyway, I used this method with a great success at high school when we were mailed a small piece of metal a metal wire and were to determine the composition with as many methods as possible. It was silver. Some other answers on this page require removing the coating as well.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Alchimista almost anyone? We always used to have one, it's indispensable when something breaks. I also remember buying one to my friends as a requested a wedding present, it is a must have home item.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
You can measure the voltage when immersing the sample as an electrode into lemon juice or salty water and use known steel or known copper as the other electrode of a galvanic cell. Better use pure copper as the other electrode as different steels have different electrochemical properties. Some uncertainty, whether you don't just have steel with the same electrode potential as copper, may remain.
$endgroup$
4
$begingroup$
Since the straw is "copper-colored", the reaction will be with the surface coating. Unless you know what the coating is (and it's entirely possible that the straw is copper-plated) you can't interpret the results.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
And who has a tester at home? ;)
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
This won't work if the copper is coated in a protective layer, eg of lacquer or clear enamel. And if it isn't coated, it will have a distinctive taste, and it'll tarnish pretty quickly.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast I missed that bit, it is quite obvious that this method works with the surface. Anyway, I used this method with a great success at high school when we were mailed a small piece of metal a metal wire and were to determine the composition with as many methods as possible. It was silver. Some other answers on this page require removing the coating as well.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Alchimista almost anyone? We always used to have one, it's indispensable when something breaks. I also remember buying one to my friends as a requested a wedding present, it is a must have home item.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
You can measure the voltage when immersing the sample as an electrode into lemon juice or salty water and use known steel or known copper as the other electrode of a galvanic cell. Better use pure copper as the other electrode as different steels have different electrochemical properties. Some uncertainty, whether you don't just have steel with the same electrode potential as copper, may remain.
$endgroup$
You can measure the voltage when immersing the sample as an electrode into lemon juice or salty water and use known steel or known copper as the other electrode of a galvanic cell. Better use pure copper as the other electrode as different steels have different electrochemical properties. Some uncertainty, whether you don't just have steel with the same electrode potential as copper, may remain.
answered 2 days ago
Vladimir FVladimir F
1716
1716
4
$begingroup$
Since the straw is "copper-colored", the reaction will be with the surface coating. Unless you know what the coating is (and it's entirely possible that the straw is copper-plated) you can't interpret the results.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
And who has a tester at home? ;)
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
This won't work if the copper is coated in a protective layer, eg of lacquer or clear enamel. And if it isn't coated, it will have a distinctive taste, and it'll tarnish pretty quickly.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast I missed that bit, it is quite obvious that this method works with the surface. Anyway, I used this method with a great success at high school when we were mailed a small piece of metal a metal wire and were to determine the composition with as many methods as possible. It was silver. Some other answers on this page require removing the coating as well.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Alchimista almost anyone? We always used to have one, it's indispensable when something breaks. I also remember buying one to my friends as a requested a wedding present, it is a must have home item.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
4
$begingroup$
Since the straw is "copper-colored", the reaction will be with the surface coating. Unless you know what the coating is (and it's entirely possible that the straw is copper-plated) you can't interpret the results.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
And who has a tester at home? ;)
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
2 days ago
3
$begingroup$
This won't work if the copper is coated in a protective layer, eg of lacquer or clear enamel. And if it isn't coated, it will have a distinctive taste, and it'll tarnish pretty quickly.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast I missed that bit, it is quite obvious that this method works with the surface. Anyway, I used this method with a great success at high school when we were mailed a small piece of metal a metal wire and were to determine the composition with as many methods as possible. It was silver. Some other answers on this page require removing the coating as well.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
2
$begingroup$
@Alchimista almost anyone? We always used to have one, it's indispensable when something breaks. I also remember buying one to my friends as a requested a wedding present, it is a must have home item.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
4
4
$begingroup$
Since the straw is "copper-colored", the reaction will be with the surface coating. Unless you know what the coating is (and it's entirely possible that the straw is copper-plated) you can't interpret the results.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Since the straw is "copper-colored", the reaction will be with the surface coating. Unless you know what the coating is (and it's entirely possible that the straw is copper-plated) you can't interpret the results.
$endgroup$
– WhatRoughBeast
2 days ago
$begingroup$
And who has a tester at home? ;)
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
2 days ago
$begingroup$
And who has a tester at home? ;)
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
2 days ago
3
3
$begingroup$
This won't work if the copper is coated in a protective layer, eg of lacquer or clear enamel. And if it isn't coated, it will have a distinctive taste, and it'll tarnish pretty quickly.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
$begingroup$
This won't work if the copper is coated in a protective layer, eg of lacquer or clear enamel. And if it isn't coated, it will have a distinctive taste, and it'll tarnish pretty quickly.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast I missed that bit, it is quite obvious that this method works with the surface. Anyway, I used this method with a great success at high school when we were mailed a small piece of metal a metal wire and were to determine the composition with as many methods as possible. It was silver. Some other answers on this page require removing the coating as well.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@WhatRoughBeast I missed that bit, it is quite obvious that this method works with the surface. Anyway, I used this method with a great success at high school when we were mailed a small piece of metal a metal wire and were to determine the composition with as many methods as possible. It was silver. Some other answers on this page require removing the coating as well.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
2
2
$begingroup$
@Alchimista almost anyone? We always used to have one, it's indispensable when something breaks. I also remember buying one to my friends as a requested a wedding present, it is a must have home item.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
$begingroup$
@Alchimista almost anyone? We always used to have one, it's indispensable when something breaks. I also remember buying one to my friends as a requested a wedding present, it is a must have home item.
$endgroup$
– Vladimir F
2 days ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Here's an idea (this is not my area however): Consider using the difference in resonant frequency. This depends on length ($L$), Young's Modulus ($E$), mass per length ($M/L$, requires mass of straw, likely found from manufacturer or else use e.g. a food scale) and second moment of inertia ($I$, area moment, unique to the geometry, a tube of known inner and outer diameter can be calculated). Copper has $E = 36times 10^6$ PSI, stainless steel (according to Engineering Toolbox) has $E = 26 times 10^6$ PSI.
For a tube of inner diameter ID and outer diameter OD, the second moment is
$$ I=frac{pi (OD^4 - ID^4)}{64} $$
Note that those are fourth powers of the inner and outer diameter.
For $E$ in PSI (pound-force per square inch), $L$ in inches ($text{in}$), $I$ in $text{in}^4$, and $M$ in $text{lbm}$ (pound-mass), for a simply supported straw (note: length is length from support to support), we can calculate the resonant frequency by (source):
$$ f = frac{pi}{2 L^2}sqrt{frac{EI}{M/L}} $$
Where $f$ is the frequency in $text{Hz}$.
The challenge might be supporting the tube properly, maybe fix the ends internally, or with some steel wire (or paperclips). The resonant frequency can (hopefully) be measured by your phone, with an audio spectrum analyzer.
For an example, consider this straw from Amazon. $OD = 0.3125text{ in}$, assume $ID = 0.3text{ in}$ for sake of example, $L = 8.5text{ in}$, and let $M = 0.01text{ lbm}$ (product net wt, not sure what packaging it has). It's made of food-grade steel (18/10, 303 grade) with $E = 27-29times 10^6text{ PSI}$. The second moment is calculated to be $I = 0.00017text{ in}^4$. Assuming the straw is ideally supported, the stainless steel straw would have a resonant frequency around $43-44text{ Hz}$, while a copper straw would have a resonant frequency of around $49text{ Hz}$, assuming I haven't made a mistake in my calculations.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here's an idea (this is not my area however): Consider using the difference in resonant frequency. This depends on length ($L$), Young's Modulus ($E$), mass per length ($M/L$, requires mass of straw, likely found from manufacturer or else use e.g. a food scale) and second moment of inertia ($I$, area moment, unique to the geometry, a tube of known inner and outer diameter can be calculated). Copper has $E = 36times 10^6$ PSI, stainless steel (according to Engineering Toolbox) has $E = 26 times 10^6$ PSI.
For a tube of inner diameter ID and outer diameter OD, the second moment is
$$ I=frac{pi (OD^4 - ID^4)}{64} $$
Note that those are fourth powers of the inner and outer diameter.
For $E$ in PSI (pound-force per square inch), $L$ in inches ($text{in}$), $I$ in $text{in}^4$, and $M$ in $text{lbm}$ (pound-mass), for a simply supported straw (note: length is length from support to support), we can calculate the resonant frequency by (source):
$$ f = frac{pi}{2 L^2}sqrt{frac{EI}{M/L}} $$
Where $f$ is the frequency in $text{Hz}$.
The challenge might be supporting the tube properly, maybe fix the ends internally, or with some steel wire (or paperclips). The resonant frequency can (hopefully) be measured by your phone, with an audio spectrum analyzer.
For an example, consider this straw from Amazon. $OD = 0.3125text{ in}$, assume $ID = 0.3text{ in}$ for sake of example, $L = 8.5text{ in}$, and let $M = 0.01text{ lbm}$ (product net wt, not sure what packaging it has). It's made of food-grade steel (18/10, 303 grade) with $E = 27-29times 10^6text{ PSI}$. The second moment is calculated to be $I = 0.00017text{ in}^4$. Assuming the straw is ideally supported, the stainless steel straw would have a resonant frequency around $43-44text{ Hz}$, while a copper straw would have a resonant frequency of around $49text{ Hz}$, assuming I haven't made a mistake in my calculations.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Here's an idea (this is not my area however): Consider using the difference in resonant frequency. This depends on length ($L$), Young's Modulus ($E$), mass per length ($M/L$, requires mass of straw, likely found from manufacturer or else use e.g. a food scale) and second moment of inertia ($I$, area moment, unique to the geometry, a tube of known inner and outer diameter can be calculated). Copper has $E = 36times 10^6$ PSI, stainless steel (according to Engineering Toolbox) has $E = 26 times 10^6$ PSI.
For a tube of inner diameter ID and outer diameter OD, the second moment is
$$ I=frac{pi (OD^4 - ID^4)}{64} $$
Note that those are fourth powers of the inner and outer diameter.
For $E$ in PSI (pound-force per square inch), $L$ in inches ($text{in}$), $I$ in $text{in}^4$, and $M$ in $text{lbm}$ (pound-mass), for a simply supported straw (note: length is length from support to support), we can calculate the resonant frequency by (source):
$$ f = frac{pi}{2 L^2}sqrt{frac{EI}{M/L}} $$
Where $f$ is the frequency in $text{Hz}$.
The challenge might be supporting the tube properly, maybe fix the ends internally, or with some steel wire (or paperclips). The resonant frequency can (hopefully) be measured by your phone, with an audio spectrum analyzer.
For an example, consider this straw from Amazon. $OD = 0.3125text{ in}$, assume $ID = 0.3text{ in}$ for sake of example, $L = 8.5text{ in}$, and let $M = 0.01text{ lbm}$ (product net wt, not sure what packaging it has). It's made of food-grade steel (18/10, 303 grade) with $E = 27-29times 10^6text{ PSI}$. The second moment is calculated to be $I = 0.00017text{ in}^4$. Assuming the straw is ideally supported, the stainless steel straw would have a resonant frequency around $43-44text{ Hz}$, while a copper straw would have a resonant frequency of around $49text{ Hz}$, assuming I haven't made a mistake in my calculations.
$endgroup$
Here's an idea (this is not my area however): Consider using the difference in resonant frequency. This depends on length ($L$), Young's Modulus ($E$), mass per length ($M/L$, requires mass of straw, likely found from manufacturer or else use e.g. a food scale) and second moment of inertia ($I$, area moment, unique to the geometry, a tube of known inner and outer diameter can be calculated). Copper has $E = 36times 10^6$ PSI, stainless steel (according to Engineering Toolbox) has $E = 26 times 10^6$ PSI.
For a tube of inner diameter ID and outer diameter OD, the second moment is
$$ I=frac{pi (OD^4 - ID^4)}{64} $$
Note that those are fourth powers of the inner and outer diameter.
For $E$ in PSI (pound-force per square inch), $L$ in inches ($text{in}$), $I$ in $text{in}^4$, and $M$ in $text{lbm}$ (pound-mass), for a simply supported straw (note: length is length from support to support), we can calculate the resonant frequency by (source):
$$ f = frac{pi}{2 L^2}sqrt{frac{EI}{M/L}} $$
Where $f$ is the frequency in $text{Hz}$.
The challenge might be supporting the tube properly, maybe fix the ends internally, or with some steel wire (or paperclips). The resonant frequency can (hopefully) be measured by your phone, with an audio spectrum analyzer.
For an example, consider this straw from Amazon. $OD = 0.3125text{ in}$, assume $ID = 0.3text{ in}$ for sake of example, $L = 8.5text{ in}$, and let $M = 0.01text{ lbm}$ (product net wt, not sure what packaging it has). It's made of food-grade steel (18/10, 303 grade) with $E = 27-29times 10^6text{ PSI}$. The second moment is calculated to be $I = 0.00017text{ in}^4$. Assuming the straw is ideally supported, the stainless steel straw would have a resonant frequency around $43-44text{ Hz}$, while a copper straw would have a resonant frequency of around $49text{ Hz}$, assuming I haven't made a mistake in my calculations.
answered 2 days ago
Sam GallagherSam Gallagher
183110
183110
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Touch it with a magnet. Steel is magnetic. Copper is not.
New contributor
$endgroup$
34
$begingroup$
Stainless steel often isn't magnetic at all, so nope. If it is magnetic, it's likely some kind of steel, but if it's not, it doesn't tell you anything.
$endgroup$
– Luaan
Jan 22 at 11:54
1
$begingroup$
You are correct. Apparently the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added.
$endgroup$
– Crisp
Jan 22 at 12:06
10
$begingroup$
Good stainless steel is not magnetic. However, sometimes stainless steels can be a little magnetic, specially when they have been worked, bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=24 . Although non being magnetic isn't reason enough to rule out stainless steel, being a little magnetic can be a reason to rule out copper.
$endgroup$
– Pere
Jan 22 at 14:34
3
$begingroup$
Despite the fact that it may not work with all possible steels, if you perceive a force than there should definitely be ferritic steel and not only copper. In this case this test is the simplest of all those presented here.
$endgroup$
– lcv
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
400 series SS is magnetic, but to different degrees depending on how it's alloyed. 300 series is non-magnetic.
$endgroup$
– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Touch it with a magnet. Steel is magnetic. Copper is not.
New contributor
$endgroup$
34
$begingroup$
Stainless steel often isn't magnetic at all, so nope. If it is magnetic, it's likely some kind of steel, but if it's not, it doesn't tell you anything.
$endgroup$
– Luaan
Jan 22 at 11:54
1
$begingroup$
You are correct. Apparently the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added.
$endgroup$
– Crisp
Jan 22 at 12:06
10
$begingroup$
Good stainless steel is not magnetic. However, sometimes stainless steels can be a little magnetic, specially when they have been worked, bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=24 . Although non being magnetic isn't reason enough to rule out stainless steel, being a little magnetic can be a reason to rule out copper.
$endgroup$
– Pere
Jan 22 at 14:34
3
$begingroup$
Despite the fact that it may not work with all possible steels, if you perceive a force than there should definitely be ferritic steel and not only copper. In this case this test is the simplest of all those presented here.
$endgroup$
– lcv
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
400 series SS is magnetic, but to different degrees depending on how it's alloyed. 300 series is non-magnetic.
$endgroup$
– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Touch it with a magnet. Steel is magnetic. Copper is not.
New contributor
$endgroup$
Touch it with a magnet. Steel is magnetic. Copper is not.
New contributor
New contributor
answered Jan 22 at 11:38
CrispCrisp
672
672
New contributor
New contributor
34
$begingroup$
Stainless steel often isn't magnetic at all, so nope. If it is magnetic, it's likely some kind of steel, but if it's not, it doesn't tell you anything.
$endgroup$
– Luaan
Jan 22 at 11:54
1
$begingroup$
You are correct. Apparently the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added.
$endgroup$
– Crisp
Jan 22 at 12:06
10
$begingroup$
Good stainless steel is not magnetic. However, sometimes stainless steels can be a little magnetic, specially when they have been worked, bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=24 . Although non being magnetic isn't reason enough to rule out stainless steel, being a little magnetic can be a reason to rule out copper.
$endgroup$
– Pere
Jan 22 at 14:34
3
$begingroup$
Despite the fact that it may not work with all possible steels, if you perceive a force than there should definitely be ferritic steel and not only copper. In this case this test is the simplest of all those presented here.
$endgroup$
– lcv
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
400 series SS is magnetic, but to different degrees depending on how it's alloyed. 300 series is non-magnetic.
$endgroup$
– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
34
$begingroup$
Stainless steel often isn't magnetic at all, so nope. If it is magnetic, it's likely some kind of steel, but if it's not, it doesn't tell you anything.
$endgroup$
– Luaan
Jan 22 at 11:54
1
$begingroup$
You are correct. Apparently the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added.
$endgroup$
– Crisp
Jan 22 at 12:06
10
$begingroup$
Good stainless steel is not magnetic. However, sometimes stainless steels can be a little magnetic, specially when they have been worked, bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=24 . Although non being magnetic isn't reason enough to rule out stainless steel, being a little magnetic can be a reason to rule out copper.
$endgroup$
– Pere
Jan 22 at 14:34
3
$begingroup$
Despite the fact that it may not work with all possible steels, if you perceive a force than there should definitely be ferritic steel and not only copper. In this case this test is the simplest of all those presented here.
$endgroup$
– lcv
2 days ago
1
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400 series SS is magnetic, but to different degrees depending on how it's alloyed. 300 series is non-magnetic.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
34
34
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Stainless steel often isn't magnetic at all, so nope. If it is magnetic, it's likely some kind of steel, but if it's not, it doesn't tell you anything.
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– Luaan
Jan 22 at 11:54
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Stainless steel often isn't magnetic at all, so nope. If it is magnetic, it's likely some kind of steel, but if it's not, it doesn't tell you anything.
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– Luaan
Jan 22 at 11:54
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You are correct. Apparently the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added.
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– Crisp
Jan 22 at 12:06
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You are correct. Apparently the most common stainless steels are 'austenitic' - these have a higher chromium content and nickel is also added.
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– Crisp
Jan 22 at 12:06
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Good stainless steel is not magnetic. However, sometimes stainless steels can be a little magnetic, specially when they have been worked, bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=24 . Although non being magnetic isn't reason enough to rule out stainless steel, being a little magnetic can be a reason to rule out copper.
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– Pere
Jan 22 at 14:34
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Good stainless steel is not magnetic. However, sometimes stainless steels can be a little magnetic, specially when they have been worked, bssa.org.uk/faq.php?id=24 . Although non being magnetic isn't reason enough to rule out stainless steel, being a little magnetic can be a reason to rule out copper.
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– Pere
Jan 22 at 14:34
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Despite the fact that it may not work with all possible steels, if you perceive a force than there should definitely be ferritic steel and not only copper. In this case this test is the simplest of all those presented here.
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– lcv
2 days ago
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Despite the fact that it may not work with all possible steels, if you perceive a force than there should definitely be ferritic steel and not only copper. In this case this test is the simplest of all those presented here.
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– lcv
2 days ago
1
1
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400 series SS is magnetic, but to different degrees depending on how it's alloyed. 300 series is non-magnetic.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
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400 series SS is magnetic, but to different degrees depending on how it's alloyed. 300 series is non-magnetic.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
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show 1 more comment
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Copper is much more malleable and ductile than stainless steel, so a very simple but possibly destructive test would be to try bending the straw with your fingers.
A copper-plated steel straw will still have the strength of steel. A solid copper straw would be much softer and easily bent.
For comparison, try bending a paperclip, then try bending a piece of copper wire the same thickness as the paperclip. The difference is very noticeable.
New contributor
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1
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try squeezing it?
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– htmlcoderexe
yesterday
add a comment |
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Copper is much more malleable and ductile than stainless steel, so a very simple but possibly destructive test would be to try bending the straw with your fingers.
A copper-plated steel straw will still have the strength of steel. A solid copper straw would be much softer and easily bent.
For comparison, try bending a paperclip, then try bending a piece of copper wire the same thickness as the paperclip. The difference is very noticeable.
New contributor
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1
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try squeezing it?
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– htmlcoderexe
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Copper is much more malleable and ductile than stainless steel, so a very simple but possibly destructive test would be to try bending the straw with your fingers.
A copper-plated steel straw will still have the strength of steel. A solid copper straw would be much softer and easily bent.
For comparison, try bending a paperclip, then try bending a piece of copper wire the same thickness as the paperclip. The difference is very noticeable.
New contributor
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Copper is much more malleable and ductile than stainless steel, so a very simple but possibly destructive test would be to try bending the straw with your fingers.
A copper-plated steel straw will still have the strength of steel. A solid copper straw would be much softer and easily bent.
For comparison, try bending a paperclip, then try bending a piece of copper wire the same thickness as the paperclip. The difference is very noticeable.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 days ago
barbecuebarbecue
1213
1213
New contributor
New contributor
1
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try squeezing it?
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– htmlcoderexe
yesterday
add a comment |
1
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try squeezing it?
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– htmlcoderexe
yesterday
1
1
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try squeezing it?
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– htmlcoderexe
yesterday
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try squeezing it?
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– htmlcoderexe
yesterday
add a comment |
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Taste it, copper and stainless steel taste nothing a like.
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6
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Agreed, but if it is copper, it probably has a coating to reduce chemical reactions.
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– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
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Yeah but you can scratch that off on a small spot with your thumb nail and just taste it, and that would be a good way to see if they did put a coating on the stainless steel as well.
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– Michael H.
2 days ago
1
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@MichaelH. Agreed. Also, copper has a unique odor. Ask any experienced machinist or toolmaker. My freshman year at Macomber VTHS machine shop, the teacher taught us boys how different materials smell.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
add a comment |
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Taste it, copper and stainless steel taste nothing a like.
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6
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Agreed, but if it is copper, it probably has a coating to reduce chemical reactions.
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– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
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Yeah but you can scratch that off on a small spot with your thumb nail and just taste it, and that would be a good way to see if they did put a coating on the stainless steel as well.
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– Michael H.
2 days ago
1
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@MichaelH. Agreed. Also, copper has a unique odor. Ask any experienced machinist or toolmaker. My freshman year at Macomber VTHS machine shop, the teacher taught us boys how different materials smell.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
add a comment |
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Taste it, copper and stainless steel taste nothing a like.
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Taste it, copper and stainless steel taste nothing a like.
answered 2 days ago
Michael H.Michael H.
442
442
6
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Agreed, but if it is copper, it probably has a coating to reduce chemical reactions.
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– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
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Yeah but you can scratch that off on a small spot with your thumb nail and just taste it, and that would be a good way to see if they did put a coating on the stainless steel as well.
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– Michael H.
2 days ago
1
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@MichaelH. Agreed. Also, copper has a unique odor. Ask any experienced machinist or toolmaker. My freshman year at Macomber VTHS machine shop, the teacher taught us boys how different materials smell.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
add a comment |
6
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Agreed, but if it is copper, it probably has a coating to reduce chemical reactions.
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– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Yeah but you can scratch that off on a small spot with your thumb nail and just taste it, and that would be a good way to see if they did put a coating on the stainless steel as well.
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– Michael H.
2 days ago
1
$begingroup$
@MichaelH. Agreed. Also, copper has a unique odor. Ask any experienced machinist or toolmaker. My freshman year at Macomber VTHS machine shop, the teacher taught us boys how different materials smell.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
6
6
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Agreed, but if it is copper, it probably has a coating to reduce chemical reactions.
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– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Agreed, but if it is copper, it probably has a coating to reduce chemical reactions.
$endgroup$
– PM 2Ring
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Yeah but you can scratch that off on a small spot with your thumb nail and just taste it, and that would be a good way to see if they did put a coating on the stainless steel as well.
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– Michael H.
2 days ago
$begingroup$
Yeah but you can scratch that off on a small spot with your thumb nail and just taste it, and that would be a good way to see if they did put a coating on the stainless steel as well.
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– Michael H.
2 days ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@MichaelH. Agreed. Also, copper has a unique odor. Ask any experienced machinist or toolmaker. My freshman year at Macomber VTHS machine shop, the teacher taught us boys how different materials smell.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MichaelH. Agreed. Also, copper has a unique odor. Ask any experienced machinist or toolmaker. My freshman year at Macomber VTHS machine shop, the teacher taught us boys how different materials smell.
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– Mike Waters
18 hours ago
add a comment |
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned hardness, since this is what metallurgists and machinists would use. Basically, you can buy sets of files made out of different grades of known metal hardness. If the file scuffs the metal, the metal is softer than the file. If the file doesn't scuff the metal, instead the metal smooths down the file, the metal is harder than the file. You work down from the hardest file in the set down to the softest, until you don't see any more scuffing, and bingo, that gives you the hardness of the metal, with some degree of accuracy.
Having said that, steel is typically so much harder than copper, that it should be incredibly obvious from using ANY steel file, whether you are struggling to cut through steel, or chew right through copper. Copper is so soft you can usually bite it and leave a mark, although this isn't recommended. Use a file to do the biting for you.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm surprised no one has mentioned hardness, since this is what metallurgists and machinists would use. Basically, you can buy sets of files made out of different grades of known metal hardness. If the file scuffs the metal, the metal is softer than the file. If the file doesn't scuff the metal, instead the metal smooths down the file, the metal is harder than the file. You work down from the hardest file in the set down to the softest, until you don't see any more scuffing, and bingo, that gives you the hardness of the metal, with some degree of accuracy.
Having said that, steel is typically so much harder than copper, that it should be incredibly obvious from using ANY steel file, whether you are struggling to cut through steel, or chew right through copper. Copper is so soft you can usually bite it and leave a mark, although this isn't recommended. Use a file to do the biting for you.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm surprised no one has mentioned hardness, since this is what metallurgists and machinists would use. Basically, you can buy sets of files made out of different grades of known metal hardness. If the file scuffs the metal, the metal is softer than the file. If the file doesn't scuff the metal, instead the metal smooths down the file, the metal is harder than the file. You work down from the hardest file in the set down to the softest, until you don't see any more scuffing, and bingo, that gives you the hardness of the metal, with some degree of accuracy.
Having said that, steel is typically so much harder than copper, that it should be incredibly obvious from using ANY steel file, whether you are struggling to cut through steel, or chew right through copper. Copper is so soft you can usually bite it and leave a mark, although this isn't recommended. Use a file to do the biting for you.
New contributor
$endgroup$
I'm surprised no one has mentioned hardness, since this is what metallurgists and machinists would use. Basically, you can buy sets of files made out of different grades of known metal hardness. If the file scuffs the metal, the metal is softer than the file. If the file doesn't scuff the metal, instead the metal smooths down the file, the metal is harder than the file. You work down from the hardest file in the set down to the softest, until you don't see any more scuffing, and bingo, that gives you the hardness of the metal, with some degree of accuracy.
Having said that, steel is typically so much harder than copper, that it should be incredibly obvious from using ANY steel file, whether you are struggling to cut through steel, or chew right through copper. Copper is so soft you can usually bite it and leave a mark, although this isn't recommended. Use a file to do the biting for you.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 2 hours ago
J.JJ.J
1111
1111
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
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You might want to try soldering - If the solder drop attaches easily to the straw it's copper.
This is somewhat destructive of course, but since others pointed out, that copper is unsafe to drink from, you would want to throw it away anyway.
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4
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Nice idea except it doesn't rule out copper plating.
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– Chris H
yesterday
2
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This is prone to false positives (copper-plated steel) and false negatives (varnished copper).
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– Mark
yesterday
add a comment |
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You might want to try soldering - If the solder drop attaches easily to the straw it's copper.
This is somewhat destructive of course, but since others pointed out, that copper is unsafe to drink from, you would want to throw it away anyway.
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4
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Nice idea except it doesn't rule out copper plating.
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– Chris H
yesterday
2
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This is prone to false positives (copper-plated steel) and false negatives (varnished copper).
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– Mark
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You might want to try soldering - If the solder drop attaches easily to the straw it's copper.
This is somewhat destructive of course, but since others pointed out, that copper is unsafe to drink from, you would want to throw it away anyway.
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You might want to try soldering - If the solder drop attaches easily to the straw it's copper.
This is somewhat destructive of course, but since others pointed out, that copper is unsafe to drink from, you would want to throw it away anyway.
answered 2 days ago
MarcelMarcel
1013
1013
4
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Nice idea except it doesn't rule out copper plating.
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– Chris H
yesterday
2
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This is prone to false positives (copper-plated steel) and false negatives (varnished copper).
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– Mark
yesterday
add a comment |
4
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Nice idea except it doesn't rule out copper plating.
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– Chris H
yesterday
2
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This is prone to false positives (copper-plated steel) and false negatives (varnished copper).
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– Mark
yesterday
4
4
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Nice idea except it doesn't rule out copper plating.
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– Chris H
yesterday
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Nice idea except it doesn't rule out copper plating.
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– Chris H
yesterday
2
2
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This is prone to false positives (copper-plated steel) and false negatives (varnished copper).
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– Mark
yesterday
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This is prone to false positives (copper-plated steel) and false negatives (varnished copper).
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– Mark
yesterday
add a comment |
1
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It is also strange someone would sell copper as stainless steel, unless the stainless steel is a very special one. But I know I am not answering the question. Just a though
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– Alchimista
Jan 22 at 9:44
2
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You might want to ask this on Chemistry. They might give you a more definitive test relying on chemical rather than physical principles.
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– WaterMolecule
2 days ago
6
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Certain grades of stainless steel are magnetic so that offers a possible quick check although it's one-sided and not definitive.
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– Engineer Toast
2 days ago
3
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Copper compounds are toxic, as well copper metal being susceptible to corrosion in acids (eg fruit juice), so I would be very surprised if an implement to be placed in the mouth were copper - also you might get tingling in your tooth fillings due to the electrode potential !
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– MikeW
2 days ago
2
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if you are willing to damage the copper-colour coating it's easy. Stainless steel is silvery, copper is, er, coppery. Gently file an end?
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– nigel222
22 hours ago