Find the coordinate of two line segments that are perpendicular












1












$begingroup$


How can the x,y position (actually will need in 3d but for simplicity asking in 2d) of a point be found if it is the intersection of two perpendicular line segments.



I have two points, $p_1$ and $p_2$ that are known $x,y$ locations. I also have line segments with known lengths $a$ and $b$. I made a diagram below to illustrate the problem.



enter image description here










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    If the lengths $a$ and $b$ are fixed, then you must also have $lVert p_1-p_2rVert^2=a^2+b^2$ for there to be any solution at all. It this condition is meth, then there can be up to four solutions, two if $p_1$ must be an endpoint of $a$ and $p_2$ must be an endpoint of $b$.
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @amd yes p1 and p2 are the endpoints of a and b. I need their mutual endpoint
    $endgroup$
    – user1938107
    1 hour ago
















1












$begingroup$


How can the x,y position (actually will need in 3d but for simplicity asking in 2d) of a point be found if it is the intersection of two perpendicular line segments.



I have two points, $p_1$ and $p_2$ that are known $x,y$ locations. I also have line segments with known lengths $a$ and $b$. I made a diagram below to illustrate the problem.



enter image description here










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    If the lengths $a$ and $b$ are fixed, then you must also have $lVert p_1-p_2rVert^2=a^2+b^2$ for there to be any solution at all. It this condition is meth, then there can be up to four solutions, two if $p_1$ must be an endpoint of $a$ and $p_2$ must be an endpoint of $b$.
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @amd yes p1 and p2 are the endpoints of a and b. I need their mutual endpoint
    $endgroup$
    – user1938107
    1 hour ago














1












1








1





$begingroup$


How can the x,y position (actually will need in 3d but for simplicity asking in 2d) of a point be found if it is the intersection of two perpendicular line segments.



I have two points, $p_1$ and $p_2$ that are known $x,y$ locations. I also have line segments with known lengths $a$ and $b$. I made a diagram below to illustrate the problem.



enter image description here










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




How can the x,y position (actually will need in 3d but for simplicity asking in 2d) of a point be found if it is the intersection of two perpendicular line segments.



I have two points, $p_1$ and $p_2$ that are known $x,y$ locations. I also have line segments with known lengths $a$ and $b$. I made a diagram below to illustrate the problem.



enter image description here







geometry trigonometry






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share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked 2 hours ago









user1938107user1938107

15310




15310












  • $begingroup$
    If the lengths $a$ and $b$ are fixed, then you must also have $lVert p_1-p_2rVert^2=a^2+b^2$ for there to be any solution at all. It this condition is meth, then there can be up to four solutions, two if $p_1$ must be an endpoint of $a$ and $p_2$ must be an endpoint of $b$.
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @amd yes p1 and p2 are the endpoints of a and b. I need their mutual endpoint
    $endgroup$
    – user1938107
    1 hour ago


















  • $begingroup$
    If the lengths $a$ and $b$ are fixed, then you must also have $lVert p_1-p_2rVert^2=a^2+b^2$ for there to be any solution at all. It this condition is meth, then there can be up to four solutions, two if $p_1$ must be an endpoint of $a$ and $p_2$ must be an endpoint of $b$.
    $endgroup$
    – amd
    1 hour ago










  • $begingroup$
    @amd yes p1 and p2 are the endpoints of a and b. I need their mutual endpoint
    $endgroup$
    – user1938107
    1 hour ago
















$begingroup$
If the lengths $a$ and $b$ are fixed, then you must also have $lVert p_1-p_2rVert^2=a^2+b^2$ for there to be any solution at all. It this condition is meth, then there can be up to four solutions, two if $p_1$ must be an endpoint of $a$ and $p_2$ must be an endpoint of $b$.
$endgroup$
– amd
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
If the lengths $a$ and $b$ are fixed, then you must also have $lVert p_1-p_2rVert^2=a^2+b^2$ for there to be any solution at all. It this condition is meth, then there can be up to four solutions, two if $p_1$ must be an endpoint of $a$ and $p_2$ must be an endpoint of $b$.
$endgroup$
– amd
1 hour ago












$begingroup$
@amd yes p1 and p2 are the endpoints of a and b. I need their mutual endpoint
$endgroup$
– user1938107
1 hour ago




$begingroup$
@amd yes p1 and p2 are the endpoints of a and b. I need their mutual endpoint
$endgroup$
– user1938107
1 hour ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

Sometimes a figure is worth a 1000 words:



enter image description here



In three dimensions:



enter image description here






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    If you draw a circle with diameter $sqrt{a^2+b^2}$ then $p_3$ can be either of two points on that circle.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      The lengths $a$ and $b$ are also fixed so this doesn't completely work.
      $endgroup$
      – AHusain
      2 hours ago










    • $begingroup$
      Sorry, this answer should have been a comment.
      $endgroup$
      – steven gregory
      2 hours ago












    • $begingroup$
      sure, but how can I find where that point is on the circle?
      $endgroup$
      – user1938107
      2 hours ago



















    1












    $begingroup$


    • Let $ell$ be the distance between $p_1$ and $p_2$, and let $p_3$ be the point where the two line segments will meet.


    • The three points $p_1, p_2, p_3$ form a triangle whose side lengths we know: $a, b, ell$.


    • We can find out where $p_3$ is by measuring properties of this triangle. Draw a perpendicular altitude from $p_3$ down to the side of the triangle between $p_1$ and $p_2$. Call the intersection point $p_4$.



    • If we knew the length $h$ of this altitude, we would know where to put $p_3$. First, we could find out where $p_4$ is. By the Pythagorean theorem, the distance between $p_1$ and $p_4$ is $sqrt{a^2 - h^2}$. So
      $$p_4 = p_1 + frac{sqrt{a^2-h^2}}{ell} (p_2 - p_1)$$



      Next, we would use $p_4$ to find out where to put $p_3$. We start from $p_4$ and travel a distance $h$ in a direction perpendicular to the $p_1$ $p_2$ base of the triangle.



      In two dimensions, we have two choices of perpendicular direction. In three dimensions, we actually have an infinite number of perpendicular directions[*], so you'll have to pick one. Pick a unit vector $widehat{u}$ in a perpendicular direction.



      Then $p_3 = p_4 + hcdot widehat{u}$, which gives you the answer you want.



    • But how do we find $h$? We can find $h$ if we know the area of the triangle. Heron's formula lets you calculate the area of the triangle when you know the length of all the sides. $A = sqrt{s(s-a)(s-b)(s-ell)}$, where $s$ is half the perimeter $s = (a+b+ell)/2$. Once you have the area, you can calculate the height of the altitude: $A = frac{1}{2}text{base}timestext{height}$, so $h = 2A/ell$.



    [*] In 3D, you have an infinite number of perpendicular directions. Imagine $p_1=langle 0,0rangle$ and $p_2 = langle 1,0rangle$, and $a$ and $b$ are some numbers. There's a satisfactory point $p_3$ in the x-y plane. But if you spin $p_3$ around the $x$-axis, you find an infinite number of other satisfactory points too.






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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      2












      $begingroup$

      Sometimes a figure is worth a 1000 words:



      enter image description here



      In three dimensions:



      enter image description here






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        2












        $begingroup$

        Sometimes a figure is worth a 1000 words:



        enter image description here



        In three dimensions:



        enter image description here






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          2












          2








          2





          $begingroup$

          Sometimes a figure is worth a 1000 words:



          enter image description here



          In three dimensions:



          enter image description here






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Sometimes a figure is worth a 1000 words:



          enter image description here



          In three dimensions:



          enter image description here







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited 27 mins ago

























          answered 1 hour ago









          David G. StorkDavid G. Stork

          12.3k41836




          12.3k41836























              1












              $begingroup$

              If you draw a circle with diameter $sqrt{a^2+b^2}$ then $p_3$ can be either of two points on that circle.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                The lengths $a$ and $b$ are also fixed so this doesn't completely work.
                $endgroup$
                – AHusain
                2 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                Sorry, this answer should have been a comment.
                $endgroup$
                – steven gregory
                2 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                sure, but how can I find where that point is on the circle?
                $endgroup$
                – user1938107
                2 hours ago
















              1












              $begingroup$

              If you draw a circle with diameter $sqrt{a^2+b^2}$ then $p_3$ can be either of two points on that circle.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                The lengths $a$ and $b$ are also fixed so this doesn't completely work.
                $endgroup$
                – AHusain
                2 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                Sorry, this answer should have been a comment.
                $endgroup$
                – steven gregory
                2 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                sure, but how can I find where that point is on the circle?
                $endgroup$
                – user1938107
                2 hours ago














              1












              1








              1





              $begingroup$

              If you draw a circle with diameter $sqrt{a^2+b^2}$ then $p_3$ can be either of two points on that circle.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              If you draw a circle with diameter $sqrt{a^2+b^2}$ then $p_3$ can be either of two points on that circle.







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited 2 hours ago

























              answered 2 hours ago









              steven gregorysteven gregory

              18.5k32459




              18.5k32459












              • $begingroup$
                The lengths $a$ and $b$ are also fixed so this doesn't completely work.
                $endgroup$
                – AHusain
                2 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                Sorry, this answer should have been a comment.
                $endgroup$
                – steven gregory
                2 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                sure, but how can I find where that point is on the circle?
                $endgroup$
                – user1938107
                2 hours ago


















              • $begingroup$
                The lengths $a$ and $b$ are also fixed so this doesn't completely work.
                $endgroup$
                – AHusain
                2 hours ago










              • $begingroup$
                Sorry, this answer should have been a comment.
                $endgroup$
                – steven gregory
                2 hours ago












              • $begingroup$
                sure, but how can I find where that point is on the circle?
                $endgroup$
                – user1938107
                2 hours ago
















              $begingroup$
              The lengths $a$ and $b$ are also fixed so this doesn't completely work.
              $endgroup$
              – AHusain
              2 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              The lengths $a$ and $b$ are also fixed so this doesn't completely work.
              $endgroup$
              – AHusain
              2 hours ago












              $begingroup$
              Sorry, this answer should have been a comment.
              $endgroup$
              – steven gregory
              2 hours ago






              $begingroup$
              Sorry, this answer should have been a comment.
              $endgroup$
              – steven gregory
              2 hours ago














              $begingroup$
              sure, but how can I find where that point is on the circle?
              $endgroup$
              – user1938107
              2 hours ago




              $begingroup$
              sure, but how can I find where that point is on the circle?
              $endgroup$
              – user1938107
              2 hours ago











              1












              $begingroup$


              • Let $ell$ be the distance between $p_1$ and $p_2$, and let $p_3$ be the point where the two line segments will meet.


              • The three points $p_1, p_2, p_3$ form a triangle whose side lengths we know: $a, b, ell$.


              • We can find out where $p_3$ is by measuring properties of this triangle. Draw a perpendicular altitude from $p_3$ down to the side of the triangle between $p_1$ and $p_2$. Call the intersection point $p_4$.



              • If we knew the length $h$ of this altitude, we would know where to put $p_3$. First, we could find out where $p_4$ is. By the Pythagorean theorem, the distance between $p_1$ and $p_4$ is $sqrt{a^2 - h^2}$. So
                $$p_4 = p_1 + frac{sqrt{a^2-h^2}}{ell} (p_2 - p_1)$$



                Next, we would use $p_4$ to find out where to put $p_3$. We start from $p_4$ and travel a distance $h$ in a direction perpendicular to the $p_1$ $p_2$ base of the triangle.



                In two dimensions, we have two choices of perpendicular direction. In three dimensions, we actually have an infinite number of perpendicular directions[*], so you'll have to pick one. Pick a unit vector $widehat{u}$ in a perpendicular direction.



                Then $p_3 = p_4 + hcdot widehat{u}$, which gives you the answer you want.



              • But how do we find $h$? We can find $h$ if we know the area of the triangle. Heron's formula lets you calculate the area of the triangle when you know the length of all the sides. $A = sqrt{s(s-a)(s-b)(s-ell)}$, where $s$ is half the perimeter $s = (a+b+ell)/2$. Once you have the area, you can calculate the height of the altitude: $A = frac{1}{2}text{base}timestext{height}$, so $h = 2A/ell$.



              [*] In 3D, you have an infinite number of perpendicular directions. Imagine $p_1=langle 0,0rangle$ and $p_2 = langle 1,0rangle$, and $a$ and $b$ are some numbers. There's a satisfactory point $p_3$ in the x-y plane. But if you spin $p_3$ around the $x$-axis, you find an infinite number of other satisfactory points too.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                1












                $begingroup$


                • Let $ell$ be the distance between $p_1$ and $p_2$, and let $p_3$ be the point where the two line segments will meet.


                • The three points $p_1, p_2, p_3$ form a triangle whose side lengths we know: $a, b, ell$.


                • We can find out where $p_3$ is by measuring properties of this triangle. Draw a perpendicular altitude from $p_3$ down to the side of the triangle between $p_1$ and $p_2$. Call the intersection point $p_4$.



                • If we knew the length $h$ of this altitude, we would know where to put $p_3$. First, we could find out where $p_4$ is. By the Pythagorean theorem, the distance between $p_1$ and $p_4$ is $sqrt{a^2 - h^2}$. So
                  $$p_4 = p_1 + frac{sqrt{a^2-h^2}}{ell} (p_2 - p_1)$$



                  Next, we would use $p_4$ to find out where to put $p_3$. We start from $p_4$ and travel a distance $h$ in a direction perpendicular to the $p_1$ $p_2$ base of the triangle.



                  In two dimensions, we have two choices of perpendicular direction. In three dimensions, we actually have an infinite number of perpendicular directions[*], so you'll have to pick one. Pick a unit vector $widehat{u}$ in a perpendicular direction.



                  Then $p_3 = p_4 + hcdot widehat{u}$, which gives you the answer you want.



                • But how do we find $h$? We can find $h$ if we know the area of the triangle. Heron's formula lets you calculate the area of the triangle when you know the length of all the sides. $A = sqrt{s(s-a)(s-b)(s-ell)}$, where $s$ is half the perimeter $s = (a+b+ell)/2$. Once you have the area, you can calculate the height of the altitude: $A = frac{1}{2}text{base}timestext{height}$, so $h = 2A/ell$.



                [*] In 3D, you have an infinite number of perpendicular directions. Imagine $p_1=langle 0,0rangle$ and $p_2 = langle 1,0rangle$, and $a$ and $b$ are some numbers. There's a satisfactory point $p_3$ in the x-y plane. But if you spin $p_3$ around the $x$-axis, you find an infinite number of other satisfactory points too.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$


                  • Let $ell$ be the distance between $p_1$ and $p_2$, and let $p_3$ be the point where the two line segments will meet.


                  • The three points $p_1, p_2, p_3$ form a triangle whose side lengths we know: $a, b, ell$.


                  • We can find out where $p_3$ is by measuring properties of this triangle. Draw a perpendicular altitude from $p_3$ down to the side of the triangle between $p_1$ and $p_2$. Call the intersection point $p_4$.



                  • If we knew the length $h$ of this altitude, we would know where to put $p_3$. First, we could find out where $p_4$ is. By the Pythagorean theorem, the distance between $p_1$ and $p_4$ is $sqrt{a^2 - h^2}$. So
                    $$p_4 = p_1 + frac{sqrt{a^2-h^2}}{ell} (p_2 - p_1)$$



                    Next, we would use $p_4$ to find out where to put $p_3$. We start from $p_4$ and travel a distance $h$ in a direction perpendicular to the $p_1$ $p_2$ base of the triangle.



                    In two dimensions, we have two choices of perpendicular direction. In three dimensions, we actually have an infinite number of perpendicular directions[*], so you'll have to pick one. Pick a unit vector $widehat{u}$ in a perpendicular direction.



                    Then $p_3 = p_4 + hcdot widehat{u}$, which gives you the answer you want.



                  • But how do we find $h$? We can find $h$ if we know the area of the triangle. Heron's formula lets you calculate the area of the triangle when you know the length of all the sides. $A = sqrt{s(s-a)(s-b)(s-ell)}$, where $s$ is half the perimeter $s = (a+b+ell)/2$. Once you have the area, you can calculate the height of the altitude: $A = frac{1}{2}text{base}timestext{height}$, so $h = 2A/ell$.



                  [*] In 3D, you have an infinite number of perpendicular directions. Imagine $p_1=langle 0,0rangle$ and $p_2 = langle 1,0rangle$, and $a$ and $b$ are some numbers. There's a satisfactory point $p_3$ in the x-y plane. But if you spin $p_3$ around the $x$-axis, you find an infinite number of other satisfactory points too.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$




                  • Let $ell$ be the distance between $p_1$ and $p_2$, and let $p_3$ be the point where the two line segments will meet.


                  • The three points $p_1, p_2, p_3$ form a triangle whose side lengths we know: $a, b, ell$.


                  • We can find out where $p_3$ is by measuring properties of this triangle. Draw a perpendicular altitude from $p_3$ down to the side of the triangle between $p_1$ and $p_2$. Call the intersection point $p_4$.



                  • If we knew the length $h$ of this altitude, we would know where to put $p_3$. First, we could find out where $p_4$ is. By the Pythagorean theorem, the distance between $p_1$ and $p_4$ is $sqrt{a^2 - h^2}$. So
                    $$p_4 = p_1 + frac{sqrt{a^2-h^2}}{ell} (p_2 - p_1)$$



                    Next, we would use $p_4$ to find out where to put $p_3$. We start from $p_4$ and travel a distance $h$ in a direction perpendicular to the $p_1$ $p_2$ base of the triangle.



                    In two dimensions, we have two choices of perpendicular direction. In three dimensions, we actually have an infinite number of perpendicular directions[*], so you'll have to pick one. Pick a unit vector $widehat{u}$ in a perpendicular direction.



                    Then $p_3 = p_4 + hcdot widehat{u}$, which gives you the answer you want.



                  • But how do we find $h$? We can find $h$ if we know the area of the triangle. Heron's formula lets you calculate the area of the triangle when you know the length of all the sides. $A = sqrt{s(s-a)(s-b)(s-ell)}$, where $s$ is half the perimeter $s = (a+b+ell)/2$. Once you have the area, you can calculate the height of the altitude: $A = frac{1}{2}text{base}timestext{height}$, so $h = 2A/ell$.



                  [*] In 3D, you have an infinite number of perpendicular directions. Imagine $p_1=langle 0,0rangle$ and $p_2 = langle 1,0rangle$, and $a$ and $b$ are some numbers. There's a satisfactory point $p_3$ in the x-y plane. But if you spin $p_3$ around the $x$-axis, you find an infinite number of other satisfactory points too.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 1 hour ago









                  user326210user326210

                  9,462927




                  9,462927






























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