Can you earn endless XP using a Flameskull and its self-revival feature?
$begingroup$
If you defeat a creature like a flameskull (Monster Manual p.135):
Eldritch Rejuvenation. A flameskull's shattered fragments reform unless they are splashed with holy water or subjected to a dispel magic or remove curse
spell. If it can no longer fulfill its intended purpose, the re-formed flameskull is beholden to no one and becomes autonomous.
Rejuvenation. If the flameskull is destroyed, it regains all its hit points in 1 hour unless holy water is sprinkled on its remains or dispel magic or remove curse spell is cast on them.
And wait for an hour, then you kill it again, an wait another hour, and kill it again... would you earn the XP each time you kill it? (Basically making an XP factory).
Is there any rule which forbids that exploit?
Related question on turning defeated enemies into undead to defeat them again. This question differs from it because the creature is returning by its own natural ability and not a mechanic provided by an adventurer, which might affect whether it counts as “defeated” for the purpose of earning XP.
dnd-5e combat experience-points
edited 20 mins ago
SevenSidedDie♦
208k31668945
asked 1 hour ago
Ender LookEnder Look
1,0151731
$endgroup$
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
If you defeat a creature like a flameskull (Monster Manual p.135):
Eldritch Rejuvenation. A flameskull's shattered fragments reform unless they are splashed with holy water or subjected to a dispel magic or remove curse
spell. If it can no longer fulfill its intended purpose, the re-formed flameskull is beholden to no one and becomes autonomous.
Rejuvenation. If the flameskull is destroyed, it regains all its hit points in 1 hour unless holy water is sprinkled on its remains or dispel magic or remove curse spell is cast on them.
And wait for an hour, then you kill it again, an wait another hour, and kill it again... would you earn the XP each time you kill it? (Basically making an XP factory).
Is there any rule which forbids that exploit?
Related question on turning defeated enemies into undead to defeat them again. This question differs from it because the creature is returning by its own natural ability and not a mechanic provided by an adventurer, which might affect whether it counts as “defeated” for the purpose of earning XP.
dnd-5e combat experience-points
edited 20 mins ago
SevenSidedDie♦
208k31668945
asked 1 hour ago
Ender LookEnder Look
1,0151731
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain to me I could try to fix it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie Could this question be reopened? I think the particularities of flameskulls and a careful reading of the rules can introduce additional value over the currently-marked dupe.
$endgroup$
– kviiri
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@kviiri Only if the question is revised so that it's not asking "can this be done in general, also here's an extra way I thought of" and focuses centrally on the part that is new. Right now this is asking the same question about how XP works for returning enemies, and will get the same answers.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
Alright. Looking at what's written here now I don't see any reason given that a flameskull makes any difference, so I'm not inclined to use my vote, but maybe the community sees a difference and might reopen it.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
58 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie As the OP mentions, there's a difference between this question and the dupe candidate in that the dupe covers adventurers deliberately raising a foe to fight it again, whereas the flameskull will revive on its own if steps are not taken (which brings up the question of whether it has actually been defeated if it's just going to pop back up).
$endgroup$
– Oblivious Sage
40 mins ago
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
If you defeat a creature like a flameskull (Monster Manual p.135):
Eldritch Rejuvenation. A flameskull's shattered fragments reform unless they are splashed with holy water or subjected to a dispel magic or remove curse
spell. If it can no longer fulfill its intended purpose, the re-formed flameskull is beholden to no one and becomes autonomous.
Rejuvenation. If the flameskull is destroyed, it regains all its hit points in 1 hour unless holy water is sprinkled on its remains or dispel magic or remove curse spell is cast on them.
And wait for an hour, then you kill it again, an wait another hour, and kill it again... would you earn the XP each time you kill it? (Basically making an XP factory).
Is there any rule which forbids that exploit?
Related question on turning defeated enemies into undead to defeat them again. This question differs from it because the creature is returning by its own natural ability and not a mechanic provided by an adventurer, which might affect whether it counts as “defeated” for the purpose of earning XP.
dnd-5e combat experience-points
edited 20 mins ago
SevenSidedDie♦
208k31668945
asked 1 hour ago
Ender LookEnder Look
1,0151731
$endgroup$
If you defeat a creature like a flameskull (Monster Manual p.135):
Eldritch Rejuvenation. A flameskull's shattered fragments reform unless they are splashed with holy water or subjected to a dispel magic or remove curse
spell. If it can no longer fulfill its intended purpose, the re-formed flameskull is beholden to no one and becomes autonomous.
Rejuvenation. If the flameskull is destroyed, it regains all its hit points in 1 hour unless holy water is sprinkled on its remains or dispel magic or remove curse spell is cast on them.
And wait for an hour, then you kill it again, an wait another hour, and kill it again... would you earn the XP each time you kill it? (Basically making an XP factory).
Is there any rule which forbids that exploit?
Related question on turning defeated enemies into undead to defeat them again. This question differs from it because the creature is returning by its own natural ability and not a mechanic provided by an adventurer, which might affect whether it counts as “defeated” for the purpose of earning XP.
dnd-5e combat experience-points
dnd-5e combat experience-points
edited 20 mins ago
SevenSidedDie♦
208k31668945
asked 1 hour ago
Ender LookEnder Look
1,0151731
edited 20 mins ago
SevenSidedDie♦
208k31668945
asked 1 hour ago
Ender LookEnder Look
1,0151731
edited 20 mins ago
SevenSidedDie♦
208k31668945
edited 20 mins ago
SevenSidedDie♦
208k31668945
edited 20 mins ago
SevenSidedDie♦
208k31668945
208k31668945
asked 1 hour ago
Ender LookEnder Look
1,0151731
asked 1 hour ago
Ender LookEnder Look
1,0151731
asked 1 hour ago
Ender LookEnder Look
1,0151731
1,0151731
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain to me I could try to fix it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie Could this question be reopened? I think the particularities of flameskulls and a careful reading of the rules can introduce additional value over the currently-marked dupe.
$endgroup$
– kviiri
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@kviiri Only if the question is revised so that it's not asking "can this be done in general, also here's an extra way I thought of" and focuses centrally on the part that is new. Right now this is asking the same question about how XP works for returning enemies, and will get the same answers.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
Alright. Looking at what's written here now I don't see any reason given that a flameskull makes any difference, so I'm not inclined to use my vote, but maybe the community sees a difference and might reopen it.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
58 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie As the OP mentions, there's a difference between this question and the dupe candidate in that the dupe covers adventurers deliberately raising a foe to fight it again, whereas the flameskull will revive on its own if steps are not taken (which brings up the question of whether it has actually been defeated if it's just going to pop back up).
$endgroup$
– Oblivious Sage
40 mins ago
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain to me I could try to fix it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie Could this question be reopened? I think the particularities of flameskulls and a careful reading of the rules can introduce additional value over the currently-marked dupe.
$endgroup$
– kviiri
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@kviiri Only if the question is revised so that it's not asking "can this be done in general, also here's an extra way I thought of" and focuses centrally on the part that is new. Right now this is asking the same question about how XP works for returning enemies, and will get the same answers.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
Alright. Looking at what's written here now I don't see any reason given that a flameskull makes any difference, so I'm not inclined to use my vote, but maybe the community sees a difference and might reopen it.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
58 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie As the OP mentions, there's a difference between this question and the dupe candidate in that the dupe covers adventurers deliberately raising a foe to fight it again, whereas the flameskull will revive on its own if steps are not taken (which brings up the question of whether it has actually been defeated if it's just going to pop back up).
$endgroup$
– Oblivious Sage
40 mins ago
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain to me I could try to fix it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain to me I could try to fix it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie Could this question be reopened? I think the particularities of flameskulls and a careful reading of the rules can introduce additional value over the currently-marked dupe.
$endgroup$
– kviiri
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie Could this question be reopened? I think the particularities of flameskulls and a careful reading of the rules can introduce additional value over the currently-marked dupe.
$endgroup$
– kviiri
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@kviiri Only if the question is revised so that it's not asking "can this be done in general, also here's an extra way I thought of" and focuses centrally on the part that is new. Right now this is asking the same question about how XP works for returning enemies, and will get the same answers.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@kviiri Only if the question is revised so that it's not asking "can this be done in general, also here's an extra way I thought of" and focuses centrally on the part that is new. Right now this is asking the same question about how XP works for returning enemies, and will get the same answers.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Alright. Looking at what's written here now I don't see any reason given that a flameskull makes any difference, so I'm not inclined to use my vote, but maybe the community sees a difference and might reopen it.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
58 mins ago
$begingroup$
Alright. Looking at what's written here now I don't see any reason given that a flameskull makes any difference, so I'm not inclined to use my vote, but maybe the community sees a difference and might reopen it.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
58 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie As the OP mentions, there's a difference between this question and the dupe candidate in that the dupe covers adventurers deliberately raising a foe to fight it again, whereas the flameskull will revive on its own if steps are not taken (which brings up the question of whether it has actually been defeated if it's just going to pop back up).
$endgroup$
– Oblivious Sage
40 mins ago
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie As the OP mentions, there's a difference between this question and the dupe candidate in that the dupe covers adventurers deliberately raising a foe to fight it again, whereas the flameskull will revive on its own if steps are not taken (which brings up the question of whether it has actually been defeated if it's just going to pop back up).
$endgroup$
– Oblivious Sage
40 mins ago
|
show 5 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
No
The DMG says:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Until the Flameskull has been defeated you get no XP for it. It is not (necessarily) defeated by being reduced to 0hp; this is an example of what defeat might look like that is not applicable for this particular monster.
If the objective of the PCs is to get past the obstacle the Flameskull represents (e.g. to loot the treasure it’s guarding) then it is defeated when they do that. If their objective is to destroy it, then it’s defeated when the sprinkle its remains with holy water.
answered 25 mins ago
Dale MDale M
107k21276475
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can do this... kinda.
The Dungeon Master's Guide has this to say about awarding XP (page 260):
When adventurers defeat one or more monsters --- typically by killing, routing, or capturing them --- they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves. [followed by clarification]
A literal reading suggests that you can kill the same enemy several times in order to gain its XP value many times. However, a more literal reading says that it's not the killing itself that counts --- it's defeating an enemy. The distinction is very meaningful when considering creatures that might not stay dead, such as flameskulls.
Consider a party in an enclosed space where they are constantly hounded by the same flameskulls, over and over again, until they find a way to destroy or evade them permanently. It would be a reasonable RAW judgment from the GM that killing the flameskulls does not constitute defeating them in this case --- you're merely inflicting a very temporary setback. However, in a dungeon where the players are expected to face an encounter of flameskulls and leave before their respawning can happen, killing them effectively accomplishes the players' objective and a reasonable RAW judgment would be to award the players the XP.
However, standing around a slain flameskull, waiting for it to reform, is not defeating it again. It's just toying with it --- there's no real or additional challenge involved in getting an easy kill from a just-reformed flameskull. As you can see from these examples, what exactly does defeating an enemy mean is somewhat ill-defined and therefore this scheme is dependent on the definition used by the GM.
Chances are no GM will let you farm XP
Experience farming is boring, and boredom shouldn't be a part of a TTRPG. Most GMs would either bluntly decide to no longer award experience for grinding, or come up with a creative punishment for trying to mess with the system. If you want a higher-level character, work it out with your GM instead of trying to subvert the rules.
answered 24 mins ago
kviirikviiri
36.8k11138211
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, but...
It's not that big of a deal. As NautArch points out,
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Technically, you are just killing it, letting it reform, and then killing it again...but have you really killed it?
If you DM determines that this is a valid "XP factory" and that killing it is the same as defeating it, you're going to have to understand the cost of such a factory.
A Flameskull has a challenge rating of 4 and is worth 1,100 XP. Assuming you have a party of 4 players at level 4, each time you kill the Skull, each of you gains 275 XP. 275 XP per hour at the cost of fighting a creature that can cast a myriad of spells unlimited number of times is not that much. With the bare minimum of 2,700 XP required to be level 4, it would take you 14 hours and 14 encounters with this skull to get to level 5 and another 28 hours and 28 encounters to get to level 6.
Think of the cost of fighting a creature with 40 HP, 13 AC, with multiple resistances, immunities, and condition immunities. It's not as easy as killing it instantly, because if you can't kill it instantly, it can cast a fireball every time it resurrects. Or, it can flee, attack, or otherwise drag out the encounter to make itself more deadly.
Generally speaking, characters aren't meant to have 14 medium-challenge encounters a day and aren't equipped to fight that many times without long resting. It's not much of an exploit, it's more of a strategy with a big cost. And if you want to continue fighting it, you can't ever stop to long rest or leave it alone for more than an hour because, in all likely-hood, it will flee or otherwise do something to stop your strategy (or make it difficult).
This says nothing about whether or not your DM actually lets you do this in a vacuum or do it at all. But yeah, if you want to make a very slow XP grinder, you can do it.
answered 18 mins ago
Premier BromanovPremier Bromanov
12.6k647110
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
RAW, yes - this is technically a workable exploit
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states (emphasis mine):
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Defeating doesn't necessarily mean killing
Technically, you are just defeating it, letting it reform, and then killing it again.
Whether or not the defeat is XP Worthy is up to your DM:
Your mileage may vary with your DM
While this is the technical rule, it is completely within the purview of your DM to say "stop this shenanigan...we're moving on."
And they can say this via RAW.
If the destroyed flameskull is not finished off, then it can be ruled that you haven't actually killed it. In order to truly 'kill' it, you've got to finish the job by sprinkling holy water or by casting dispel magic or remove curse.
answered 33 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
58k8206385
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add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
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active
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votes
$begingroup$
No
The DMG says:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Until the Flameskull has been defeated you get no XP for it. It is not (necessarily) defeated by being reduced to 0hp; this is an example of what defeat might look like that is not applicable for this particular monster.
If the objective of the PCs is to get past the obstacle the Flameskull represents (e.g. to loot the treasure it’s guarding) then it is defeated when they do that. If their objective is to destroy it, then it’s defeated when the sprinkle its remains with holy water.
answered 25 mins ago
Dale MDale M
107k21276475
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
The DMG says:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Until the Flameskull has been defeated you get no XP for it. It is not (necessarily) defeated by being reduced to 0hp; this is an example of what defeat might look like that is not applicable for this particular monster.
If the objective of the PCs is to get past the obstacle the Flameskull represents (e.g. to loot the treasure it’s guarding) then it is defeated when they do that. If their objective is to destroy it, then it’s defeated when the sprinkle its remains with holy water.
answered 25 mins ago
Dale MDale M
107k21276475
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
No
The DMG says:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Until the Flameskull has been defeated you get no XP for it. It is not (necessarily) defeated by being reduced to 0hp; this is an example of what defeat might look like that is not applicable for this particular monster.
If the objective of the PCs is to get past the obstacle the Flameskull represents (e.g. to loot the treasure it’s guarding) then it is defeated when they do that. If their objective is to destroy it, then it’s defeated when the sprinkle its remains with holy water.
answered 25 mins ago
Dale MDale M
107k21276475
$endgroup$
No
The DMG says:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Until the Flameskull has been defeated you get no XP for it. It is not (necessarily) defeated by being reduced to 0hp; this is an example of what defeat might look like that is not applicable for this particular monster.
If the objective of the PCs is to get past the obstacle the Flameskull represents (e.g. to loot the treasure it’s guarding) then it is defeated when they do that. If their objective is to destroy it, then it’s defeated when the sprinkle its remains with holy water.
answered 25 mins ago
Dale MDale M
107k21276475
answered 25 mins ago
Dale MDale M
107k21276475
answered 25 mins ago
Dale MDale M
107k21276475
answered 25 mins ago
Dale MDale M
107k21276475
107k21276475
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can do this... kinda.
The Dungeon Master's Guide has this to say about awarding XP (page 260):
When adventurers defeat one or more monsters --- typically by killing, routing, or capturing them --- they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves. [followed by clarification]
A literal reading suggests that you can kill the same enemy several times in order to gain its XP value many times. However, a more literal reading says that it's not the killing itself that counts --- it's defeating an enemy. The distinction is very meaningful when considering creatures that might not stay dead, such as flameskulls.
Consider a party in an enclosed space where they are constantly hounded by the same flameskulls, over and over again, until they find a way to destroy or evade them permanently. It would be a reasonable RAW judgment from the GM that killing the flameskulls does not constitute defeating them in this case --- you're merely inflicting a very temporary setback. However, in a dungeon where the players are expected to face an encounter of flameskulls and leave before their respawning can happen, killing them effectively accomplishes the players' objective and a reasonable RAW judgment would be to award the players the XP.
However, standing around a slain flameskull, waiting for it to reform, is not defeating it again. It's just toying with it --- there's no real or additional challenge involved in getting an easy kill from a just-reformed flameskull. As you can see from these examples, what exactly does defeating an enemy mean is somewhat ill-defined and therefore this scheme is dependent on the definition used by the GM.
Chances are no GM will let you farm XP
Experience farming is boring, and boredom shouldn't be a part of a TTRPG. Most GMs would either bluntly decide to no longer award experience for grinding, or come up with a creative punishment for trying to mess with the system. If you want a higher-level character, work it out with your GM instead of trying to subvert the rules.
answered 24 mins ago
kviirikviiri
36.8k11138211
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can do this... kinda.
The Dungeon Master's Guide has this to say about awarding XP (page 260):
When adventurers defeat one or more monsters --- typically by killing, routing, or capturing them --- they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves. [followed by clarification]
A literal reading suggests that you can kill the same enemy several times in order to gain its XP value many times. However, a more literal reading says that it's not the killing itself that counts --- it's defeating an enemy. The distinction is very meaningful when considering creatures that might not stay dead, such as flameskulls.
Consider a party in an enclosed space where they are constantly hounded by the same flameskulls, over and over again, until they find a way to destroy or evade them permanently. It would be a reasonable RAW judgment from the GM that killing the flameskulls does not constitute defeating them in this case --- you're merely inflicting a very temporary setback. However, in a dungeon where the players are expected to face an encounter of flameskulls and leave before their respawning can happen, killing them effectively accomplishes the players' objective and a reasonable RAW judgment would be to award the players the XP.
However, standing around a slain flameskull, waiting for it to reform, is not defeating it again. It's just toying with it --- there's no real or additional challenge involved in getting an easy kill from a just-reformed flameskull. As you can see from these examples, what exactly does defeating an enemy mean is somewhat ill-defined and therefore this scheme is dependent on the definition used by the GM.
Chances are no GM will let you farm XP
Experience farming is boring, and boredom shouldn't be a part of a TTRPG. Most GMs would either bluntly decide to no longer award experience for grinding, or come up with a creative punishment for trying to mess with the system. If you want a higher-level character, work it out with your GM instead of trying to subvert the rules.
answered 24 mins ago
kviirikviiri
36.8k11138211
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can do this... kinda.
The Dungeon Master's Guide has this to say about awarding XP (page 260):
When adventurers defeat one or more monsters --- typically by killing, routing, or capturing them --- they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves. [followed by clarification]
A literal reading suggests that you can kill the same enemy several times in order to gain its XP value many times. However, a more literal reading says that it's not the killing itself that counts --- it's defeating an enemy. The distinction is very meaningful when considering creatures that might not stay dead, such as flameskulls.
Consider a party in an enclosed space where they are constantly hounded by the same flameskulls, over and over again, until they find a way to destroy or evade them permanently. It would be a reasonable RAW judgment from the GM that killing the flameskulls does not constitute defeating them in this case --- you're merely inflicting a very temporary setback. However, in a dungeon where the players are expected to face an encounter of flameskulls and leave before their respawning can happen, killing them effectively accomplishes the players' objective and a reasonable RAW judgment would be to award the players the XP.
However, standing around a slain flameskull, waiting for it to reform, is not defeating it again. It's just toying with it --- there's no real or additional challenge involved in getting an easy kill from a just-reformed flameskull. As you can see from these examples, what exactly does defeating an enemy mean is somewhat ill-defined and therefore this scheme is dependent on the definition used by the GM.
Chances are no GM will let you farm XP
Experience farming is boring, and boredom shouldn't be a part of a TTRPG. Most GMs would either bluntly decide to no longer award experience for grinding, or come up with a creative punishment for trying to mess with the system. If you want a higher-level character, work it out with your GM instead of trying to subvert the rules.
answered 24 mins ago
kviirikviiri
36.8k11138211
$endgroup$
You can do this... kinda.
The Dungeon Master's Guide has this to say about awarding XP (page 260):
When adventurers defeat one or more monsters --- typically by killing, routing, or capturing them --- they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves. [followed by clarification]
A literal reading suggests that you can kill the same enemy several times in order to gain its XP value many times. However, a more literal reading says that it's not the killing itself that counts --- it's defeating an enemy. The distinction is very meaningful when considering creatures that might not stay dead, such as flameskulls.
Consider a party in an enclosed space where they are constantly hounded by the same flameskulls, over and over again, until they find a way to destroy or evade them permanently. It would be a reasonable RAW judgment from the GM that killing the flameskulls does not constitute defeating them in this case --- you're merely inflicting a very temporary setback. However, in a dungeon where the players are expected to face an encounter of flameskulls and leave before their respawning can happen, killing them effectively accomplishes the players' objective and a reasonable RAW judgment would be to award the players the XP.
However, standing around a slain flameskull, waiting for it to reform, is not defeating it again. It's just toying with it --- there's no real or additional challenge involved in getting an easy kill from a just-reformed flameskull. As you can see from these examples, what exactly does defeating an enemy mean is somewhat ill-defined and therefore this scheme is dependent on the definition used by the GM.
Chances are no GM will let you farm XP
Experience farming is boring, and boredom shouldn't be a part of a TTRPG. Most GMs would either bluntly decide to no longer award experience for grinding, or come up with a creative punishment for trying to mess with the system. If you want a higher-level character, work it out with your GM instead of trying to subvert the rules.
answered 24 mins ago
kviirikviiri
36.8k11138211
edited 15 mins ago
answered 24 mins ago
kviirikviiri
36.8k11138211
answered 24 mins ago
kviirikviiri
36.8k11138211
answered 24 mins ago
kviirikviiri
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, but...
It's not that big of a deal. As NautArch points out,
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Technically, you are just killing it, letting it reform, and then killing it again...but have you really killed it?
If you DM determines that this is a valid "XP factory" and that killing it is the same as defeating it, you're going to have to understand the cost of such a factory.
A Flameskull has a challenge rating of 4 and is worth 1,100 XP. Assuming you have a party of 4 players at level 4, each time you kill the Skull, each of you gains 275 XP. 275 XP per hour at the cost of fighting a creature that can cast a myriad of spells unlimited number of times is not that much. With the bare minimum of 2,700 XP required to be level 4, it would take you 14 hours and 14 encounters with this skull to get to level 5 and another 28 hours and 28 encounters to get to level 6.
Think of the cost of fighting a creature with 40 HP, 13 AC, with multiple resistances, immunities, and condition immunities. It's not as easy as killing it instantly, because if you can't kill it instantly, it can cast a fireball every time it resurrects. Or, it can flee, attack, or otherwise drag out the encounter to make itself more deadly.
Generally speaking, characters aren't meant to have 14 medium-challenge encounters a day and aren't equipped to fight that many times without long resting. It's not much of an exploit, it's more of a strategy with a big cost. And if you want to continue fighting it, you can't ever stop to long rest or leave it alone for more than an hour because, in all likely-hood, it will flee or otherwise do something to stop your strategy (or make it difficult).
This says nothing about whether or not your DM actually lets you do this in a vacuum or do it at all. But yeah, if you want to make a very slow XP grinder, you can do it.
answered 18 mins ago
Premier BromanovPremier Bromanov
12.6k647110
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, but...
It's not that big of a deal. As NautArch points out,
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Technically, you are just killing it, letting it reform, and then killing it again...but have you really killed it?
If you DM determines that this is a valid "XP factory" and that killing it is the same as defeating it, you're going to have to understand the cost of such a factory.
A Flameskull has a challenge rating of 4 and is worth 1,100 XP. Assuming you have a party of 4 players at level 4, each time you kill the Skull, each of you gains 275 XP. 275 XP per hour at the cost of fighting a creature that can cast a myriad of spells unlimited number of times is not that much. With the bare minimum of 2,700 XP required to be level 4, it would take you 14 hours and 14 encounters with this skull to get to level 5 and another 28 hours and 28 encounters to get to level 6.
Think of the cost of fighting a creature with 40 HP, 13 AC, with multiple resistances, immunities, and condition immunities. It's not as easy as killing it instantly, because if you can't kill it instantly, it can cast a fireball every time it resurrects. Or, it can flee, attack, or otherwise drag out the encounter to make itself more deadly.
Generally speaking, characters aren't meant to have 14 medium-challenge encounters a day and aren't equipped to fight that many times without long resting. It's not much of an exploit, it's more of a strategy with a big cost. And if you want to continue fighting it, you can't ever stop to long rest or leave it alone for more than an hour because, in all likely-hood, it will flee or otherwise do something to stop your strategy (or make it difficult).
This says nothing about whether or not your DM actually lets you do this in a vacuum or do it at all. But yeah, if you want to make a very slow XP grinder, you can do it.
answered 18 mins ago
Premier BromanovPremier Bromanov
12.6k647110
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, but...
It's not that big of a deal. As NautArch points out,
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Technically, you are just killing it, letting it reform, and then killing it again...but have you really killed it?
If you DM determines that this is a valid "XP factory" and that killing it is the same as defeating it, you're going to have to understand the cost of such a factory.
A Flameskull has a challenge rating of 4 and is worth 1,100 XP. Assuming you have a party of 4 players at level 4, each time you kill the Skull, each of you gains 275 XP. 275 XP per hour at the cost of fighting a creature that can cast a myriad of spells unlimited number of times is not that much. With the bare minimum of 2,700 XP required to be level 4, it would take you 14 hours and 14 encounters with this skull to get to level 5 and another 28 hours and 28 encounters to get to level 6.
Think of the cost of fighting a creature with 40 HP, 13 AC, with multiple resistances, immunities, and condition immunities. It's not as easy as killing it instantly, because if you can't kill it instantly, it can cast a fireball every time it resurrects. Or, it can flee, attack, or otherwise drag out the encounter to make itself more deadly.
Generally speaking, characters aren't meant to have 14 medium-challenge encounters a day and aren't equipped to fight that many times without long resting. It's not much of an exploit, it's more of a strategy with a big cost. And if you want to continue fighting it, you can't ever stop to long rest or leave it alone for more than an hour because, in all likely-hood, it will flee or otherwise do something to stop your strategy (or make it difficult).
This says nothing about whether or not your DM actually lets you do this in a vacuum or do it at all. But yeah, if you want to make a very slow XP grinder, you can do it.
answered 18 mins ago
Premier BromanovPremier Bromanov
12.6k647110
$endgroup$
Yes, but...
It's not that big of a deal. As NautArch points out,
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states:
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Technically, you are just killing it, letting it reform, and then killing it again...but have you really killed it?
If you DM determines that this is a valid "XP factory" and that killing it is the same as defeating it, you're going to have to understand the cost of such a factory.
A Flameskull has a challenge rating of 4 and is worth 1,100 XP. Assuming you have a party of 4 players at level 4, each time you kill the Skull, each of you gains 275 XP. 275 XP per hour at the cost of fighting a creature that can cast a myriad of spells unlimited number of times is not that much. With the bare minimum of 2,700 XP required to be level 4, it would take you 14 hours and 14 encounters with this skull to get to level 5 and another 28 hours and 28 encounters to get to level 6.
Think of the cost of fighting a creature with 40 HP, 13 AC, with multiple resistances, immunities, and condition immunities. It's not as easy as killing it instantly, because if you can't kill it instantly, it can cast a fireball every time it resurrects. Or, it can flee, attack, or otherwise drag out the encounter to make itself more deadly.
Generally speaking, characters aren't meant to have 14 medium-challenge encounters a day and aren't equipped to fight that many times without long resting. It's not much of an exploit, it's more of a strategy with a big cost. And if you want to continue fighting it, you can't ever stop to long rest or leave it alone for more than an hour because, in all likely-hood, it will flee or otherwise do something to stop your strategy (or make it difficult).
This says nothing about whether or not your DM actually lets you do this in a vacuum or do it at all. But yeah, if you want to make a very slow XP grinder, you can do it.
answered 18 mins ago
Premier BromanovPremier Bromanov
12.6k647110
answered 18 mins ago
Premier BromanovPremier Bromanov
12.6k647110
answered 18 mins ago
Premier BromanovPremier Bromanov
12.6k647110
answered 18 mins ago
Premier BromanovPremier Bromanov
12.6k647110
12.6k647110
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
RAW, yes - this is technically a workable exploit
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states (emphasis mine):
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Defeating doesn't necessarily mean killing
Technically, you are just defeating it, letting it reform, and then killing it again.
Whether or not the defeat is XP Worthy is up to your DM:
Your mileage may vary with your DM
While this is the technical rule, it is completely within the purview of your DM to say "stop this shenanigan...we're moving on."
And they can say this via RAW.
If the destroyed flameskull is not finished off, then it can be ruled that you haven't actually killed it. In order to truly 'kill' it, you've got to finish the job by sprinkling holy water or by casting dispel magic or remove curse.
answered 33 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
58k8206385
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
RAW, yes - this is technically a workable exploit
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states (emphasis mine):
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Defeating doesn't necessarily mean killing
Technically, you are just defeating it, letting it reform, and then killing it again.
Whether or not the defeat is XP Worthy is up to your DM:
Your mileage may vary with your DM
While this is the technical rule, it is completely within the purview of your DM to say "stop this shenanigan...we're moving on."
And they can say this via RAW.
If the destroyed flameskull is not finished off, then it can be ruled that you haven't actually killed it. In order to truly 'kill' it, you've got to finish the job by sprinkling holy water or by casting dispel magic or remove curse.
answered 33 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
58k8206385
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
RAW, yes - this is technically a workable exploit
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states (emphasis mine):
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Defeating doesn't necessarily mean killing
Technically, you are just defeating it, letting it reform, and then killing it again.
Whether or not the defeat is XP Worthy is up to your DM:
Your mileage may vary with your DM
While this is the technical rule, it is completely within the purview of your DM to say "stop this shenanigan...we're moving on."
And they can say this via RAW.
If the destroyed flameskull is not finished off, then it can be ruled that you haven't actually killed it. In order to truly 'kill' it, you've got to finish the job by sprinkling holy water or by casting dispel magic or remove curse.
answered 33 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
58k8206385
$endgroup$
RAW, yes - this is technically a workable exploit
Regarding Combat XP, the DMG simply states (emphasis mine):
Each monster has an XP value based on its challenge rating. When adventurers defeat one or more monsters — typically by killing, routing, or capturing them — they divide the total XP value of the monsters evenly among themselves.
Defeating doesn't necessarily mean killing
Technically, you are just defeating it, letting it reform, and then killing it again.
Whether or not the defeat is XP Worthy is up to your DM:
Your mileage may vary with your DM
While this is the technical rule, it is completely within the purview of your DM to say "stop this shenanigan...we're moving on."
And they can say this via RAW.
If the destroyed flameskull is not finished off, then it can be ruled that you haven't actually killed it. In order to truly 'kill' it, you've got to finish the job by sprinkling holy water or by casting dispel magic or remove curse.
answered 33 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
58k8206385
edited 1 min ago
answered 33 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
58k8206385
answered 33 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
58k8206385
answered 33 mins ago
NautArchNautArch
58k8206385
58k8206385
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Why the downvote? If you explain to me I could try to fix it.
$endgroup$
– Ender Look
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie Could this question be reopened? I think the particularities of flameskulls and a careful reading of the rules can introduce additional value over the currently-marked dupe.
$endgroup$
– kviiri
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@kviiri Only if the question is revised so that it's not asking "can this be done in general, also here's an extra way I thought of" and focuses centrally on the part that is new. Right now this is asking the same question about how XP works for returning enemies, and will get the same answers.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
1 hour ago
3
$begingroup$
Alright. Looking at what's written here now I don't see any reason given that a flameskull makes any difference, so I'm not inclined to use my vote, but maybe the community sees a difference and might reopen it.
$endgroup$
– SevenSidedDie♦
58 mins ago
1
$begingroup$
@SevenSidedDie As the OP mentions, there's a difference between this question and the dupe candidate in that the dupe covers adventurers deliberately raising a foe to fight it again, whereas the flameskull will revive on its own if steps are not taken (which brings up the question of whether it has actually been defeated if it's just going to pop back up).
$endgroup$
– Oblivious Sage
40 mins ago