Peculiar pronunciation of 'architecture'
Watching a footage from 1928-9 i noticed that the narrator pronounced architecture as ['a:rtʃitektʃə] instead of the modern ['a:rKitektʃə].
Is this known to be the standard American pronunciation of the word around those times or is it likely to be the narrator's idiosyncrasy/mispronunciation?
pronunciation phonetics
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Watching a footage from 1928-9 i noticed that the narrator pronounced architecture as ['a:rtʃitektʃə] instead of the modern ['a:rKitektʃə].
Is this known to be the standard American pronunciation of the word around those times or is it likely to be the narrator's idiosyncrasy/mispronunciation?
pronunciation phonetics
New contributor
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
Probably a mispronounciation, inspired from the pronounciation of "arch"
– Stefan
4 hours ago
I certainly hear the "arch" vs "ark" pronunciation occasionally (and I'll admit I'm apt to use it myself, since I love to mispronounce words, especially fancy ones). I'm thinking I mostly associate it with non-US dialects, but literate (college-educated) ones -- either British or European.
– Hot Licks
6 mins ago
add a comment |
Watching a footage from 1928-9 i noticed that the narrator pronounced architecture as ['a:rtʃitektʃə] instead of the modern ['a:rKitektʃə].
Is this known to be the standard American pronunciation of the word around those times or is it likely to be the narrator's idiosyncrasy/mispronunciation?
pronunciation phonetics
New contributor
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Watching a footage from 1928-9 i noticed that the narrator pronounced architecture as ['a:rtʃitektʃə] instead of the modern ['a:rKitektʃə].
Is this known to be the standard American pronunciation of the word around those times or is it likely to be the narrator's idiosyncrasy/mispronunciation?
pronunciation phonetics
pronunciation phonetics
New contributor
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked 7 hours ago
Баян Купи-каБаян Купи-ка
1163
1163
New contributor
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
Probably a mispronounciation, inspired from the pronounciation of "arch"
– Stefan
4 hours ago
I certainly hear the "arch" vs "ark" pronunciation occasionally (and I'll admit I'm apt to use it myself, since I love to mispronounce words, especially fancy ones). I'm thinking I mostly associate it with non-US dialects, but literate (college-educated) ones -- either British or European.
– Hot Licks
6 mins ago
add a comment |
2
Probably a mispronounciation, inspired from the pronounciation of "arch"
– Stefan
4 hours ago
I certainly hear the "arch" vs "ark" pronunciation occasionally (and I'll admit I'm apt to use it myself, since I love to mispronounce words, especially fancy ones). I'm thinking I mostly associate it with non-US dialects, but literate (college-educated) ones -- either British or European.
– Hot Licks
6 mins ago
2
2
Probably a mispronounciation, inspired from the pronounciation of "arch"
– Stefan
4 hours ago
Probably a mispronounciation, inspired from the pronounciation of "arch"
– Stefan
4 hours ago
I certainly hear the "arch" vs "ark" pronunciation occasionally (and I'll admit I'm apt to use it myself, since I love to mispronounce words, especially fancy ones). I'm thinking I mostly associate it with non-US dialects, but literate (college-educated) ones -- either British or European.
– Hot Licks
6 mins ago
I certainly hear the "arch" vs "ark" pronunciation occasionally (and I'll admit I'm apt to use it myself, since I love to mispronounce words, especially fancy ones). I'm thinking I mostly associate it with non-US dialects, but literate (college-educated) ones -- either British or European.
– Hot Licks
6 mins ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
I work in the field of architecture in the US, and though this pronunciation of which you ask is uncommon, it's not unheard of.
I don't honestly know in definitive or authoritative fashion if it is simply a mispronunciation, or if there's a regional / dialect component, or even a morphology / etymology component, but based on frequency, I'm guessing it's a mispronunciation.
add a comment |
First, a caveat: "standard" pronunciation doesn't really exist. Aside from the general absence of official standardizing bodies in English, there is too much variability in the area of pronunciation for there to be even an unofficial standard for pronunciation as a whole (as there is, more or less, for English spelling).
The following part of this post is just about the pronunciation of this word at the present time. I didn't read the question carefully enough!
I wouldn't consider ['a:rtʃitektʃə] a usual American English pronunciation. For one thing, American English is typically rhotic, so I'd expect word to end in /ər/ (that is, [ɚ] or [ɹ̩]) rather than [ə].
And to address the main point of your question, I've never heard it pronounced with [tʃ] instead of [k], and this sounds like a mispronunciation to me. ("Sound like a mispronunciation" is a description of my mental reaction, not of any objective fact about the speaker's pronunciation.)
The general "rule" for pronouncing "ch" in words from Greek is to use /k/, as you may already know. There are some words that violate this rule for all speakers: e.g., the word cherub(im) is pronounced with /tʃ/ even though it comes from a Greek transcription of Hebrew
כְּרוּב (which starts with /k/ in Hebrew). There are other words that violate this rule only for some speakers, such as lichen. Whenever you have the option of following the rule, as with lichen and architecture, I would recommend using the pronunciation with /k/.
The etymological reasons for the use of /k/ in archi- but /tʃ/ in words like archduke are fairly complicated, and I don't think they're relevant to your question. If you're interested in them anyway, you can look at the answers to Etymology and pronunciation of arch-, archi- and What determines the pronunciation of the prefix 'arch-'?.
The following part of this post is about the pronunciation of this word in the mentioned time period: 1928-9.
As far as I can tell, the situation hasn't changed that much between then and now. I know of a American "Pronouncing Handbook" from around 1873, by Richard Soule, that says to pronounce architect and architecture with /k/ rather than /tʃ/: this suggests that a non-zero amount of people pronounced architecture with /tʃ/ in Soule's time, but it also indicates that prescriptive prejudice against the /tʃ/ pronunciation was already established in 1873, and I don't think that prescriptivist attitudes about this topic would have changed much by the 1920s.
After listening to the linked video, something else that stood out to me about the speaker's pronunciation is the stress: I would transcribe his pronunciation as /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛktʃər/ or /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛkʃər/, with primary stress on the second-to-last syllable. This is not the way I pronounce the word, but it agrees in this regard with the transcription in Soule's handbook. This may have been an area of change in the pronunciation of this word in American English over the past century or so.
i guess rhoticity is a feature of modern North American pronunciation, back when the footage was filmed it sounded closer to British, at least in formal speech
– Баян Купи-ка
3 hours ago
@БаянКупи-ка: Oops, I missed the time-period element to your question! I'll have to revise this post
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@БаянКупи-ка: See the edit for some information about what a prescriptive pronunciation guide from before the mentioned time period has to say about the use of /k/ vs. /tʃ/ in "architecture".
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@Баян Купи-ка: there are still non-rhotic areas of the U.S.; Back when the footage was filmed, there were more of them, but the U.S. was mostly rhotic even back then.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
active
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I work in the field of architecture in the US, and though this pronunciation of which you ask is uncommon, it's not unheard of.
I don't honestly know in definitive or authoritative fashion if it is simply a mispronunciation, or if there's a regional / dialect component, or even a morphology / etymology component, but based on frequency, I'm guessing it's a mispronunciation.
add a comment |
I work in the field of architecture in the US, and though this pronunciation of which you ask is uncommon, it's not unheard of.
I don't honestly know in definitive or authoritative fashion if it is simply a mispronunciation, or if there's a regional / dialect component, or even a morphology / etymology component, but based on frequency, I'm guessing it's a mispronunciation.
add a comment |
I work in the field of architecture in the US, and though this pronunciation of which you ask is uncommon, it's not unheard of.
I don't honestly know in definitive or authoritative fashion if it is simply a mispronunciation, or if there's a regional / dialect component, or even a morphology / etymology component, but based on frequency, I'm guessing it's a mispronunciation.
I work in the field of architecture in the US, and though this pronunciation of which you ask is uncommon, it's not unheard of.
I don't honestly know in definitive or authoritative fashion if it is simply a mispronunciation, or if there's a regional / dialect component, or even a morphology / etymology component, but based on frequency, I'm guessing it's a mispronunciation.
answered 4 hours ago
GerardFallaGerardFalla
7039
7039
add a comment |
add a comment |
First, a caveat: "standard" pronunciation doesn't really exist. Aside from the general absence of official standardizing bodies in English, there is too much variability in the area of pronunciation for there to be even an unofficial standard for pronunciation as a whole (as there is, more or less, for English spelling).
The following part of this post is just about the pronunciation of this word at the present time. I didn't read the question carefully enough!
I wouldn't consider ['a:rtʃitektʃə] a usual American English pronunciation. For one thing, American English is typically rhotic, so I'd expect word to end in /ər/ (that is, [ɚ] or [ɹ̩]) rather than [ə].
And to address the main point of your question, I've never heard it pronounced with [tʃ] instead of [k], and this sounds like a mispronunciation to me. ("Sound like a mispronunciation" is a description of my mental reaction, not of any objective fact about the speaker's pronunciation.)
The general "rule" for pronouncing "ch" in words from Greek is to use /k/, as you may already know. There are some words that violate this rule for all speakers: e.g., the word cherub(im) is pronounced with /tʃ/ even though it comes from a Greek transcription of Hebrew
כְּרוּב (which starts with /k/ in Hebrew). There are other words that violate this rule only for some speakers, such as lichen. Whenever you have the option of following the rule, as with lichen and architecture, I would recommend using the pronunciation with /k/.
The etymological reasons for the use of /k/ in archi- but /tʃ/ in words like archduke are fairly complicated, and I don't think they're relevant to your question. If you're interested in them anyway, you can look at the answers to Etymology and pronunciation of arch-, archi- and What determines the pronunciation of the prefix 'arch-'?.
The following part of this post is about the pronunciation of this word in the mentioned time period: 1928-9.
As far as I can tell, the situation hasn't changed that much between then and now. I know of a American "Pronouncing Handbook" from around 1873, by Richard Soule, that says to pronounce architect and architecture with /k/ rather than /tʃ/: this suggests that a non-zero amount of people pronounced architecture with /tʃ/ in Soule's time, but it also indicates that prescriptive prejudice against the /tʃ/ pronunciation was already established in 1873, and I don't think that prescriptivist attitudes about this topic would have changed much by the 1920s.
After listening to the linked video, something else that stood out to me about the speaker's pronunciation is the stress: I would transcribe his pronunciation as /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛktʃər/ or /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛkʃər/, with primary stress on the second-to-last syllable. This is not the way I pronounce the word, but it agrees in this regard with the transcription in Soule's handbook. This may have been an area of change in the pronunciation of this word in American English over the past century or so.
i guess rhoticity is a feature of modern North American pronunciation, back when the footage was filmed it sounded closer to British, at least in formal speech
– Баян Купи-ка
3 hours ago
@БаянКупи-ка: Oops, I missed the time-period element to your question! I'll have to revise this post
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@БаянКупи-ка: See the edit for some information about what a prescriptive pronunciation guide from before the mentioned time period has to say about the use of /k/ vs. /tʃ/ in "architecture".
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@Баян Купи-ка: there are still non-rhotic areas of the U.S.; Back when the footage was filmed, there were more of them, but the U.S. was mostly rhotic even back then.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
add a comment |
First, a caveat: "standard" pronunciation doesn't really exist. Aside from the general absence of official standardizing bodies in English, there is too much variability in the area of pronunciation for there to be even an unofficial standard for pronunciation as a whole (as there is, more or less, for English spelling).
The following part of this post is just about the pronunciation of this word at the present time. I didn't read the question carefully enough!
I wouldn't consider ['a:rtʃitektʃə] a usual American English pronunciation. For one thing, American English is typically rhotic, so I'd expect word to end in /ər/ (that is, [ɚ] or [ɹ̩]) rather than [ə].
And to address the main point of your question, I've never heard it pronounced with [tʃ] instead of [k], and this sounds like a mispronunciation to me. ("Sound like a mispronunciation" is a description of my mental reaction, not of any objective fact about the speaker's pronunciation.)
The general "rule" for pronouncing "ch" in words from Greek is to use /k/, as you may already know. There are some words that violate this rule for all speakers: e.g., the word cherub(im) is pronounced with /tʃ/ even though it comes from a Greek transcription of Hebrew
כְּרוּב (which starts with /k/ in Hebrew). There are other words that violate this rule only for some speakers, such as lichen. Whenever you have the option of following the rule, as with lichen and architecture, I would recommend using the pronunciation with /k/.
The etymological reasons for the use of /k/ in archi- but /tʃ/ in words like archduke are fairly complicated, and I don't think they're relevant to your question. If you're interested in them anyway, you can look at the answers to Etymology and pronunciation of arch-, archi- and What determines the pronunciation of the prefix 'arch-'?.
The following part of this post is about the pronunciation of this word in the mentioned time period: 1928-9.
As far as I can tell, the situation hasn't changed that much between then and now. I know of a American "Pronouncing Handbook" from around 1873, by Richard Soule, that says to pronounce architect and architecture with /k/ rather than /tʃ/: this suggests that a non-zero amount of people pronounced architecture with /tʃ/ in Soule's time, but it also indicates that prescriptive prejudice against the /tʃ/ pronunciation was already established in 1873, and I don't think that prescriptivist attitudes about this topic would have changed much by the 1920s.
After listening to the linked video, something else that stood out to me about the speaker's pronunciation is the stress: I would transcribe his pronunciation as /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛktʃər/ or /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛkʃər/, with primary stress on the second-to-last syllable. This is not the way I pronounce the word, but it agrees in this regard with the transcription in Soule's handbook. This may have been an area of change in the pronunciation of this word in American English over the past century or so.
i guess rhoticity is a feature of modern North American pronunciation, back when the footage was filmed it sounded closer to British, at least in formal speech
– Баян Купи-ка
3 hours ago
@БаянКупи-ка: Oops, I missed the time-period element to your question! I'll have to revise this post
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@БаянКупи-ка: See the edit for some information about what a prescriptive pronunciation guide from before the mentioned time period has to say about the use of /k/ vs. /tʃ/ in "architecture".
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@Баян Купи-ка: there are still non-rhotic areas of the U.S.; Back when the footage was filmed, there were more of them, but the U.S. was mostly rhotic even back then.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
add a comment |
First, a caveat: "standard" pronunciation doesn't really exist. Aside from the general absence of official standardizing bodies in English, there is too much variability in the area of pronunciation for there to be even an unofficial standard for pronunciation as a whole (as there is, more or less, for English spelling).
The following part of this post is just about the pronunciation of this word at the present time. I didn't read the question carefully enough!
I wouldn't consider ['a:rtʃitektʃə] a usual American English pronunciation. For one thing, American English is typically rhotic, so I'd expect word to end in /ər/ (that is, [ɚ] or [ɹ̩]) rather than [ə].
And to address the main point of your question, I've never heard it pronounced with [tʃ] instead of [k], and this sounds like a mispronunciation to me. ("Sound like a mispronunciation" is a description of my mental reaction, not of any objective fact about the speaker's pronunciation.)
The general "rule" for pronouncing "ch" in words from Greek is to use /k/, as you may already know. There are some words that violate this rule for all speakers: e.g., the word cherub(im) is pronounced with /tʃ/ even though it comes from a Greek transcription of Hebrew
כְּרוּב (which starts with /k/ in Hebrew). There are other words that violate this rule only for some speakers, such as lichen. Whenever you have the option of following the rule, as with lichen and architecture, I would recommend using the pronunciation with /k/.
The etymological reasons for the use of /k/ in archi- but /tʃ/ in words like archduke are fairly complicated, and I don't think they're relevant to your question. If you're interested in them anyway, you can look at the answers to Etymology and pronunciation of arch-, archi- and What determines the pronunciation of the prefix 'arch-'?.
The following part of this post is about the pronunciation of this word in the mentioned time period: 1928-9.
As far as I can tell, the situation hasn't changed that much between then and now. I know of a American "Pronouncing Handbook" from around 1873, by Richard Soule, that says to pronounce architect and architecture with /k/ rather than /tʃ/: this suggests that a non-zero amount of people pronounced architecture with /tʃ/ in Soule's time, but it also indicates that prescriptive prejudice against the /tʃ/ pronunciation was already established in 1873, and I don't think that prescriptivist attitudes about this topic would have changed much by the 1920s.
After listening to the linked video, something else that stood out to me about the speaker's pronunciation is the stress: I would transcribe his pronunciation as /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛktʃər/ or /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛkʃər/, with primary stress on the second-to-last syllable. This is not the way I pronounce the word, but it agrees in this regard with the transcription in Soule's handbook. This may have been an area of change in the pronunciation of this word in American English over the past century or so.
First, a caveat: "standard" pronunciation doesn't really exist. Aside from the general absence of official standardizing bodies in English, there is too much variability in the area of pronunciation for there to be even an unofficial standard for pronunciation as a whole (as there is, more or less, for English spelling).
The following part of this post is just about the pronunciation of this word at the present time. I didn't read the question carefully enough!
I wouldn't consider ['a:rtʃitektʃə] a usual American English pronunciation. For one thing, American English is typically rhotic, so I'd expect word to end in /ər/ (that is, [ɚ] or [ɹ̩]) rather than [ə].
And to address the main point of your question, I've never heard it pronounced with [tʃ] instead of [k], and this sounds like a mispronunciation to me. ("Sound like a mispronunciation" is a description of my mental reaction, not of any objective fact about the speaker's pronunciation.)
The general "rule" for pronouncing "ch" in words from Greek is to use /k/, as you may already know. There are some words that violate this rule for all speakers: e.g., the word cherub(im) is pronounced with /tʃ/ even though it comes from a Greek transcription of Hebrew
כְּרוּב (which starts with /k/ in Hebrew). There are other words that violate this rule only for some speakers, such as lichen. Whenever you have the option of following the rule, as with lichen and architecture, I would recommend using the pronunciation with /k/.
The etymological reasons for the use of /k/ in archi- but /tʃ/ in words like archduke are fairly complicated, and I don't think they're relevant to your question. If you're interested in them anyway, you can look at the answers to Etymology and pronunciation of arch-, archi- and What determines the pronunciation of the prefix 'arch-'?.
The following part of this post is about the pronunciation of this word in the mentioned time period: 1928-9.
As far as I can tell, the situation hasn't changed that much between then and now. I know of a American "Pronouncing Handbook" from around 1873, by Richard Soule, that says to pronounce architect and architecture with /k/ rather than /tʃ/: this suggests that a non-zero amount of people pronounced architecture with /tʃ/ in Soule's time, but it also indicates that prescriptive prejudice against the /tʃ/ pronunciation was already established in 1873, and I don't think that prescriptivist attitudes about this topic would have changed much by the 1920s.
After listening to the linked video, something else that stood out to me about the speaker's pronunciation is the stress: I would transcribe his pronunciation as /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛktʃər/ or /ˌɑrtʃɪ'tɛkʃər/, with primary stress on the second-to-last syllable. This is not the way I pronounce the word, but it agrees in this regard with the transcription in Soule's handbook. This may have been an area of change in the pronunciation of this word in American English over the past century or so.
edited 5 mins ago
answered 3 hours ago
sumelicsumelic
47.5k8113216
47.5k8113216
i guess rhoticity is a feature of modern North American pronunciation, back when the footage was filmed it sounded closer to British, at least in formal speech
– Баян Купи-ка
3 hours ago
@БаянКупи-ка: Oops, I missed the time-period element to your question! I'll have to revise this post
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@БаянКупи-ка: See the edit for some information about what a prescriptive pronunciation guide from before the mentioned time period has to say about the use of /k/ vs. /tʃ/ in "architecture".
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@Баян Купи-ка: there are still non-rhotic areas of the U.S.; Back when the footage was filmed, there were more of them, but the U.S. was mostly rhotic even back then.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
add a comment |
i guess rhoticity is a feature of modern North American pronunciation, back when the footage was filmed it sounded closer to British, at least in formal speech
– Баян Купи-ка
3 hours ago
@БаянКупи-ка: Oops, I missed the time-period element to your question! I'll have to revise this post
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@БаянКупи-ка: See the edit for some information about what a prescriptive pronunciation guide from before the mentioned time period has to say about the use of /k/ vs. /tʃ/ in "architecture".
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
@Баян Купи-ка: there are still non-rhotic areas of the U.S.; Back when the footage was filmed, there were more of them, but the U.S. was mostly rhotic even back then.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
i guess rhoticity is a feature of modern North American pronunciation, back when the footage was filmed it sounded closer to British, at least in formal speech
– Баян Купи-ка
3 hours ago
i guess rhoticity is a feature of modern North American pronunciation, back when the footage was filmed it sounded closer to British, at least in formal speech
– Баян Купи-ка
3 hours ago
@БаянКупи-ка: Oops, I missed the time-period element to your question! I'll have to revise this post
– sumelic
3 hours ago
@БаянКупи-ка: Oops, I missed the time-period element to your question! I'll have to revise this post
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
1
@БаянКупи-ка: See the edit for some information about what a prescriptive pronunciation guide from before the mentioned time period has to say about the use of /k/ vs. /tʃ/ in "architecture".
– sumelic
3 hours ago
@БаянКупи-ка: See the edit for some information about what a prescriptive pronunciation guide from before the mentioned time period has to say about the use of /k/ vs. /tʃ/ in "architecture".
– sumelic
3 hours ago
1
1
@Баян Купи-ка: there are still non-rhotic areas of the U.S.; Back when the footage was filmed, there were more of them, but the U.S. was mostly rhotic even back then.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
@Баян Купи-ка: there are still non-rhotic areas of the U.S.; Back when the footage was filmed, there were more of them, but the U.S. was mostly rhotic even back then.
– Peter Shor
3 hours ago
add a comment |
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Баян Купи-ка is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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Probably a mispronounciation, inspired from the pronounciation of "arch"
– Stefan
4 hours ago
I certainly hear the "arch" vs "ark" pronunciation occasionally (and I'll admit I'm apt to use it myself, since I love to mispronounce words, especially fancy ones). I'm thinking I mostly associate it with non-US dialects, but literate (college-educated) ones -- either British or European.
– Hot Licks
6 mins ago