Karma for the very first birth












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It is explained in the Bhagavad Gita that every life is governed by deeds and actions from past life which is why some people are blessed with a silver spoon in their mouth while some suffer, which means life is pretty much predetermined. Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?










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  • 1





    Welcome to Hinduism SE! There is no first birth to start with. Everyone has infinite births going back in time infinitely.

    – Chinmay Sarupria
    3 hours ago








  • 2





    @ChinmaySarupria that is an answer to the question.

    – Zanna
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    @Zanna I don't have any source so I can't post answer. But this question is already answered before but I haven't been able to find it yet.

    – Chinmay Sarupria
    2 hours ago
















3















It is explained in the Bhagavad Gita that every life is governed by deeds and actions from past life which is why some people are blessed with a silver spoon in their mouth while some suffer, which means life is pretty much predetermined. Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?










share|improve this question









New contributor




user1232138 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
















  • 1





    Welcome to Hinduism SE! There is no first birth to start with. Everyone has infinite births going back in time infinitely.

    – Chinmay Sarupria
    3 hours ago








  • 2





    @ChinmaySarupria that is an answer to the question.

    – Zanna
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    @Zanna I don't have any source so I can't post answer. But this question is already answered before but I haven't been able to find it yet.

    – Chinmay Sarupria
    2 hours ago














3












3








3








It is explained in the Bhagavad Gita that every life is governed by deeds and actions from past life which is why some people are blessed with a silver spoon in their mouth while some suffer, which means life is pretty much predetermined. Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?










share|improve this question









New contributor




user1232138 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












It is explained in the Bhagavad Gita that every life is governed by deeds and actions from past life which is why some people are blessed with a silver spoon in their mouth while some suffer, which means life is pretty much predetermined. Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?







bhagavad-gita karma rebirth






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edited 1 hour ago









Sarvabhouma

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user1232138 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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Check out our Code of Conduct.








  • 1





    Welcome to Hinduism SE! There is no first birth to start with. Everyone has infinite births going back in time infinitely.

    – Chinmay Sarupria
    3 hours ago








  • 2





    @ChinmaySarupria that is an answer to the question.

    – Zanna
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    @Zanna I don't have any source so I can't post answer. But this question is already answered before but I haven't been able to find it yet.

    – Chinmay Sarupria
    2 hours ago














  • 1





    Welcome to Hinduism SE! There is no first birth to start with. Everyone has infinite births going back in time infinitely.

    – Chinmay Sarupria
    3 hours ago








  • 2





    @ChinmaySarupria that is an answer to the question.

    – Zanna
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    @Zanna I don't have any source so I can't post answer. But this question is already answered before but I haven't been able to find it yet.

    – Chinmay Sarupria
    2 hours ago








1




1





Welcome to Hinduism SE! There is no first birth to start with. Everyone has infinite births going back in time infinitely.

– Chinmay Sarupria
3 hours ago







Welcome to Hinduism SE! There is no first birth to start with. Everyone has infinite births going back in time infinitely.

– Chinmay Sarupria
3 hours ago






2




2





@ChinmaySarupria that is an answer to the question.

– Zanna
2 hours ago





@ChinmaySarupria that is an answer to the question.

– Zanna
2 hours ago




2




2





@Zanna I don't have any source so I can't post answer. But this question is already answered before but I haven't been able to find it yet.

– Chinmay Sarupria
2 hours ago





@Zanna I don't have any source so I can't post answer. But this question is already answered before but I haven't been able to find it yet.

– Chinmay Sarupria
2 hours ago










3 Answers
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active

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2














You said:




Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




Actually, your answer lies very much in the Bhagavad-Gita itself. There is no such thing as "first birth" for a Jiva. "First birth" implies souls are created but that is not the case since every Jiva has always existed just as Bhagavan has always existed. Krishna Himself states this explicitly in the Bhagavad Gita:




It is not at all that once I did not exist, nor (that) you, nor that all these kings (did not exist at anytime). And surely it is not that all of us shall not be existing hereafter. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.12)




Sripad Ramanujacharya has tried to rearrange these words to make it more easier to comprehend in his commentary on this verse:




I, who am, as you know, the Lord of all, in beginningless time prior to this present, did not cease to exist, that is, did certainly exist. It is not that these embodied souls like you, who are subject to (My) control, did not exist, that is, I and you, "hereafter" that is, after the present time, shall not be existing. We shall (all) be certainly existing. Even as there is no doubt in regard to the fact that I, the Supreme Self and the Lord of all, am eternal in the same manner you (i.e. you, Arjuna and these) who are (all) embodied individual souls, are also seemed to be eternal...




Later, in Bhagavad Gita 2.20, Krishna Himself again stress on the eternal nature of the soul:




Neither is this (Self) ever born, nor does (it) ever die. It cannot be that it (i.e. this Self), having been in existence (in the past), will not be in existence again (in the future). This (Self) which is unborn, eternal, constant and ancient (as well as new), is not slain when the body is slain. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.20)




So to sum it up, there is no such thing as "first birth" for any individual jiva. Souls are never created, just like Bhagavan is never created. Bhagavan and individual Jivatmas has always existed and will be also remain to do so.






share|improve this answer

































    1














    According to Sri Krishna, we are born out of the Avyakta and again with death merge with the Avyakta(Gita 2/28):




    O descendant of Bharata, all beings remain unmanifest in the beginning;; they become manifest in the middle. After death they certainly become unmanifest. What lamentation can there be with regard to them? (Translation by swami Gambhirananda)




    This whole creation or Maya is known to be 'Anadi' ie without any beginning.



    Sri Krishna says to Arjuna (Gita, 4/5)




    [The Blessed Lord said O Arjuna,] many lives of Mine have passed, and so have yours. I know them all, (but) you know not, O scorcher of enemies!




    He however assures all by saying (Gita, 7/14):




    Since this divine Maya of Mine which is constituted by the gunas is difficult to cross over, (therefore) those who take refuge in Me alone cross over this Maya.




    (All translations by Swami Gambhirananda)






    share|improve this answer

































      1















      Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




      According to Vedanta, there is no first birth. The Jivatma has no beginning in the cycle of life and death.



      The great Vedantic philosopher Rāmānujāchārya has stated in his work Vedartha Sangraha, or "summary of the meaning of the Vedas," the following:




      The crown of Vedas i.e., The Upanishads, which lays down the good of
      the whole world, enshrines this truth: A seeker, after first acquiring
      a true understanding of the individual self and the Supreme and
      equipped with the performance of the duties pertaining to his station
      in life, must devote himself to the meditation, worship and adoring
      salutation of the blessed feet of the supreme Person. This done with
      immeasurable joy leads to the attainment of the Supreme.



      The
      individual self is subject to beginningless nescience, which has
      brought about an accumulation of karma, of the nature of both merit
      and demerit.
      The flood of such karma causes his entry into four kinds
      of bodies — heavenly, human, animal and plant beginning with that of
      Brahma downwards. This ingression into bodies produces the delusion of
      identity with those respective bodies (and the consequent attachments
      and aversions). This delusion inevitably brings about all the fears
      inherent in the state of worldly existence. The entire body of Vedanta
      aims at the annihilation of these fears.......



      The [Brahma Sutra] aphorisms connected with this issue are, ‘Partiality and cruelty
      are not to be ascribed to Brahman, because of the dependence on
      karma’, and ‘If it be said, “There is no karma, as there was no
      differentiation” we deny that supposition on the ground of
      beginninglessness; it is reasonable and so found in actuality
      (B.S. 2;1:35-36)’.




      The Brahma Sutras, written by Rishi Vedavyasa, themselves state that the Jivatma has no beginning in samsara; there was no "first birth."




      2.1.34 - Not inequality and cruelty, on account of there being regard; for so (Scripture) declares.



      2.1.35 - If it be said 'not so, on account of non-distinction of deeds'; we say, 'not so, on account of beginninglessness'; this is reasonable, and it is also observed.




      Ramanujacharya's commentary for Sutra 2.1.35:




      But before creation the individual souls do not exist; since Scripture
      teaches non-distinction 'Being only this was in the beginning.' And as
      then the souls do not exist, no karman can exist, and it cannot
      therefore be said that the inequality of creation depends on
      karman.--Of this objection the Sûtra disposes by saying 'on account of
      beginninglessness,' i.e. although the individual souls and their deeds
      form an eternal stream, without a beginning
      , yet non-distinction of
      them 'is reasonable' (i.e. may reasonably be asserted) in so far as,
      previous to creation, the substance of the souls abides in a very
      subtle condition, destitute of names and forms, and thus incapable of
      being designated as something apart from Brahman, although in reality
      then also they constitute Brahman's body only. If it were not admitted
      (that the distinctions in the new creation are due to karman), it
      would moreover follow that souls are requited for what they have not
      done, and not requited for what they have done. The fact of the souls
      being without a beginning is observed, viz., to be stated in
      Scripture,'The intelligent one is not born and dies not' (Ka. Up. I,
      2, 18); so also the fact of the flow of creation going on from all
      eternity, 'As the creator formed sun and moon formerly.' Moreover, the
      text, 'Now all this was then undeveloped. It became developed by form
      and name' (Bri. Up. I, 4, 7), states merely that the names and forms
      of the souls were developed, and this shows that the souls themselves
      existed from the beginning. Smriti also says, 'Dost thou know both
      Prakriti and the soul to be without beginning?' (Bha. Gî. XIII,
      19.)--As Brahman thus differs in nature from everything else, possesses all powers, has no other motive than sport, and arranges the
      diversity of the creation in accordance with the different karman of
      the individual souls, Brahman alone can be the universal cause.






      Summary



      The Jivatma is eternal (was never created), and has always been in Samsara. According to the Vedas, the Jivatma takes birth in a body according to it's karma done in previous bodies. This implies that the soul has no first birth.






      share|improve this answer

































        3 Answers
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        3 Answers
        3






        active

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        active

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        active

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        2














        You said:




        Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




        Actually, your answer lies very much in the Bhagavad-Gita itself. There is no such thing as "first birth" for a Jiva. "First birth" implies souls are created but that is not the case since every Jiva has always existed just as Bhagavan has always existed. Krishna Himself states this explicitly in the Bhagavad Gita:




        It is not at all that once I did not exist, nor (that) you, nor that all these kings (did not exist at anytime). And surely it is not that all of us shall not be existing hereafter. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.12)




        Sripad Ramanujacharya has tried to rearrange these words to make it more easier to comprehend in his commentary on this verse:




        I, who am, as you know, the Lord of all, in beginningless time prior to this present, did not cease to exist, that is, did certainly exist. It is not that these embodied souls like you, who are subject to (My) control, did not exist, that is, I and you, "hereafter" that is, after the present time, shall not be existing. We shall (all) be certainly existing. Even as there is no doubt in regard to the fact that I, the Supreme Self and the Lord of all, am eternal in the same manner you (i.e. you, Arjuna and these) who are (all) embodied individual souls, are also seemed to be eternal...




        Later, in Bhagavad Gita 2.20, Krishna Himself again stress on the eternal nature of the soul:




        Neither is this (Self) ever born, nor does (it) ever die. It cannot be that it (i.e. this Self), having been in existence (in the past), will not be in existence again (in the future). This (Self) which is unborn, eternal, constant and ancient (as well as new), is not slain when the body is slain. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.20)




        So to sum it up, there is no such thing as "first birth" for any individual jiva. Souls are never created, just like Bhagavan is never created. Bhagavan and individual Jivatmas has always existed and will be also remain to do so.






        share|improve this answer






























          2














          You said:




          Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




          Actually, your answer lies very much in the Bhagavad-Gita itself. There is no such thing as "first birth" for a Jiva. "First birth" implies souls are created but that is not the case since every Jiva has always existed just as Bhagavan has always existed. Krishna Himself states this explicitly in the Bhagavad Gita:




          It is not at all that once I did not exist, nor (that) you, nor that all these kings (did not exist at anytime). And surely it is not that all of us shall not be existing hereafter. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.12)




          Sripad Ramanujacharya has tried to rearrange these words to make it more easier to comprehend in his commentary on this verse:




          I, who am, as you know, the Lord of all, in beginningless time prior to this present, did not cease to exist, that is, did certainly exist. It is not that these embodied souls like you, who are subject to (My) control, did not exist, that is, I and you, "hereafter" that is, after the present time, shall not be existing. We shall (all) be certainly existing. Even as there is no doubt in regard to the fact that I, the Supreme Self and the Lord of all, am eternal in the same manner you (i.e. you, Arjuna and these) who are (all) embodied individual souls, are also seemed to be eternal...




          Later, in Bhagavad Gita 2.20, Krishna Himself again stress on the eternal nature of the soul:




          Neither is this (Self) ever born, nor does (it) ever die. It cannot be that it (i.e. this Self), having been in existence (in the past), will not be in existence again (in the future). This (Self) which is unborn, eternal, constant and ancient (as well as new), is not slain when the body is slain. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.20)




          So to sum it up, there is no such thing as "first birth" for any individual jiva. Souls are never created, just like Bhagavan is never created. Bhagavan and individual Jivatmas has always existed and will be also remain to do so.






          share|improve this answer




























            2












            2








            2







            You said:




            Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




            Actually, your answer lies very much in the Bhagavad-Gita itself. There is no such thing as "first birth" for a Jiva. "First birth" implies souls are created but that is not the case since every Jiva has always existed just as Bhagavan has always existed. Krishna Himself states this explicitly in the Bhagavad Gita:




            It is not at all that once I did not exist, nor (that) you, nor that all these kings (did not exist at anytime). And surely it is not that all of us shall not be existing hereafter. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.12)




            Sripad Ramanujacharya has tried to rearrange these words to make it more easier to comprehend in his commentary on this verse:




            I, who am, as you know, the Lord of all, in beginningless time prior to this present, did not cease to exist, that is, did certainly exist. It is not that these embodied souls like you, who are subject to (My) control, did not exist, that is, I and you, "hereafter" that is, after the present time, shall not be existing. We shall (all) be certainly existing. Even as there is no doubt in regard to the fact that I, the Supreme Self and the Lord of all, am eternal in the same manner you (i.e. you, Arjuna and these) who are (all) embodied individual souls, are also seemed to be eternal...




            Later, in Bhagavad Gita 2.20, Krishna Himself again stress on the eternal nature of the soul:




            Neither is this (Self) ever born, nor does (it) ever die. It cannot be that it (i.e. this Self), having been in existence (in the past), will not be in existence again (in the future). This (Self) which is unborn, eternal, constant and ancient (as well as new), is not slain when the body is slain. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.20)




            So to sum it up, there is no such thing as "first birth" for any individual jiva. Souls are never created, just like Bhagavan is never created. Bhagavan and individual Jivatmas has always existed and will be also remain to do so.






            share|improve this answer















            You said:




            Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




            Actually, your answer lies very much in the Bhagavad-Gita itself. There is no such thing as "first birth" for a Jiva. "First birth" implies souls are created but that is not the case since every Jiva has always existed just as Bhagavan has always existed. Krishna Himself states this explicitly in the Bhagavad Gita:




            It is not at all that once I did not exist, nor (that) you, nor that all these kings (did not exist at anytime). And surely it is not that all of us shall not be existing hereafter. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.12)




            Sripad Ramanujacharya has tried to rearrange these words to make it more easier to comprehend in his commentary on this verse:




            I, who am, as you know, the Lord of all, in beginningless time prior to this present, did not cease to exist, that is, did certainly exist. It is not that these embodied souls like you, who are subject to (My) control, did not exist, that is, I and you, "hereafter" that is, after the present time, shall not be existing. We shall (all) be certainly existing. Even as there is no doubt in regard to the fact that I, the Supreme Self and the Lord of all, am eternal in the same manner you (i.e. you, Arjuna and these) who are (all) embodied individual souls, are also seemed to be eternal...




            Later, in Bhagavad Gita 2.20, Krishna Himself again stress on the eternal nature of the soul:




            Neither is this (Self) ever born, nor does (it) ever die. It cannot be that it (i.e. this Self), having been in existence (in the past), will not be in existence again (in the future). This (Self) which is unborn, eternal, constant and ancient (as well as new), is not slain when the body is slain. (Bhagavad-Gita 2.20)




            So to sum it up, there is no such thing as "first birth" for any individual jiva. Souls are never created, just like Bhagavan is never created. Bhagavan and individual Jivatmas has always existed and will be also remain to do so.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 21 mins ago

























            answered 29 mins ago









            Surya Kanta Bose ChowdhurySurya Kanta Bose Chowdhury

            6,93931364




            6,93931364























                1














                According to Sri Krishna, we are born out of the Avyakta and again with death merge with the Avyakta(Gita 2/28):




                O descendant of Bharata, all beings remain unmanifest in the beginning;; they become manifest in the middle. After death they certainly become unmanifest. What lamentation can there be with regard to them? (Translation by swami Gambhirananda)




                This whole creation or Maya is known to be 'Anadi' ie without any beginning.



                Sri Krishna says to Arjuna (Gita, 4/5)




                [The Blessed Lord said O Arjuna,] many lives of Mine have passed, and so have yours. I know them all, (but) you know not, O scorcher of enemies!




                He however assures all by saying (Gita, 7/14):




                Since this divine Maya of Mine which is constituted by the gunas is difficult to cross over, (therefore) those who take refuge in Me alone cross over this Maya.




                (All translations by Swami Gambhirananda)






                share|improve this answer






























                  1














                  According to Sri Krishna, we are born out of the Avyakta and again with death merge with the Avyakta(Gita 2/28):




                  O descendant of Bharata, all beings remain unmanifest in the beginning;; they become manifest in the middle. After death they certainly become unmanifest. What lamentation can there be with regard to them? (Translation by swami Gambhirananda)




                  This whole creation or Maya is known to be 'Anadi' ie without any beginning.



                  Sri Krishna says to Arjuna (Gita, 4/5)




                  [The Blessed Lord said O Arjuna,] many lives of Mine have passed, and so have yours. I know them all, (but) you know not, O scorcher of enemies!




                  He however assures all by saying (Gita, 7/14):




                  Since this divine Maya of Mine which is constituted by the gunas is difficult to cross over, (therefore) those who take refuge in Me alone cross over this Maya.




                  (All translations by Swami Gambhirananda)






                  share|improve this answer




























                    1












                    1








                    1







                    According to Sri Krishna, we are born out of the Avyakta and again with death merge with the Avyakta(Gita 2/28):




                    O descendant of Bharata, all beings remain unmanifest in the beginning;; they become manifest in the middle. After death they certainly become unmanifest. What lamentation can there be with regard to them? (Translation by swami Gambhirananda)




                    This whole creation or Maya is known to be 'Anadi' ie without any beginning.



                    Sri Krishna says to Arjuna (Gita, 4/5)




                    [The Blessed Lord said O Arjuna,] many lives of Mine have passed, and so have yours. I know them all, (but) you know not, O scorcher of enemies!




                    He however assures all by saying (Gita, 7/14):




                    Since this divine Maya of Mine which is constituted by the gunas is difficult to cross over, (therefore) those who take refuge in Me alone cross over this Maya.




                    (All translations by Swami Gambhirananda)






                    share|improve this answer















                    According to Sri Krishna, we are born out of the Avyakta and again with death merge with the Avyakta(Gita 2/28):




                    O descendant of Bharata, all beings remain unmanifest in the beginning;; they become manifest in the middle. After death they certainly become unmanifest. What lamentation can there be with regard to them? (Translation by swami Gambhirananda)




                    This whole creation or Maya is known to be 'Anadi' ie without any beginning.



                    Sri Krishna says to Arjuna (Gita, 4/5)




                    [The Blessed Lord said O Arjuna,] many lives of Mine have passed, and so have yours. I know them all, (but) you know not, O scorcher of enemies!




                    He however assures all by saying (Gita, 7/14):




                    Since this divine Maya of Mine which is constituted by the gunas is difficult to cross over, (therefore) those who take refuge in Me alone cross over this Maya.




                    (All translations by Swami Gambhirananda)







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 1 hour ago









                    Akshay S

                    1,0531228




                    1,0531228










                    answered 2 hours ago









                    Partha BanerjeePartha Banerjee

                    1,398119




                    1,398119























                        1















                        Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




                        According to Vedanta, there is no first birth. The Jivatma has no beginning in the cycle of life and death.



                        The great Vedantic philosopher Rāmānujāchārya has stated in his work Vedartha Sangraha, or "summary of the meaning of the Vedas," the following:




                        The crown of Vedas i.e., The Upanishads, which lays down the good of
                        the whole world, enshrines this truth: A seeker, after first acquiring
                        a true understanding of the individual self and the Supreme and
                        equipped with the performance of the duties pertaining to his station
                        in life, must devote himself to the meditation, worship and adoring
                        salutation of the blessed feet of the supreme Person. This done with
                        immeasurable joy leads to the attainment of the Supreme.



                        The
                        individual self is subject to beginningless nescience, which has
                        brought about an accumulation of karma, of the nature of both merit
                        and demerit.
                        The flood of such karma causes his entry into four kinds
                        of bodies — heavenly, human, animal and plant beginning with that of
                        Brahma downwards. This ingression into bodies produces the delusion of
                        identity with those respective bodies (and the consequent attachments
                        and aversions). This delusion inevitably brings about all the fears
                        inherent in the state of worldly existence. The entire body of Vedanta
                        aims at the annihilation of these fears.......



                        The [Brahma Sutra] aphorisms connected with this issue are, ‘Partiality and cruelty
                        are not to be ascribed to Brahman, because of the dependence on
                        karma’, and ‘If it be said, “There is no karma, as there was no
                        differentiation” we deny that supposition on the ground of
                        beginninglessness; it is reasonable and so found in actuality
                        (B.S. 2;1:35-36)’.




                        The Brahma Sutras, written by Rishi Vedavyasa, themselves state that the Jivatma has no beginning in samsara; there was no "first birth."




                        2.1.34 - Not inequality and cruelty, on account of there being regard; for so (Scripture) declares.



                        2.1.35 - If it be said 'not so, on account of non-distinction of deeds'; we say, 'not so, on account of beginninglessness'; this is reasonable, and it is also observed.




                        Ramanujacharya's commentary for Sutra 2.1.35:




                        But before creation the individual souls do not exist; since Scripture
                        teaches non-distinction 'Being only this was in the beginning.' And as
                        then the souls do not exist, no karman can exist, and it cannot
                        therefore be said that the inequality of creation depends on
                        karman.--Of this objection the Sûtra disposes by saying 'on account of
                        beginninglessness,' i.e. although the individual souls and their deeds
                        form an eternal stream, without a beginning
                        , yet non-distinction of
                        them 'is reasonable' (i.e. may reasonably be asserted) in so far as,
                        previous to creation, the substance of the souls abides in a very
                        subtle condition, destitute of names and forms, and thus incapable of
                        being designated as something apart from Brahman, although in reality
                        then also they constitute Brahman's body only. If it were not admitted
                        (that the distinctions in the new creation are due to karman), it
                        would moreover follow that souls are requited for what they have not
                        done, and not requited for what they have done. The fact of the souls
                        being without a beginning is observed, viz., to be stated in
                        Scripture,'The intelligent one is not born and dies not' (Ka. Up. I,
                        2, 18); so also the fact of the flow of creation going on from all
                        eternity, 'As the creator formed sun and moon formerly.' Moreover, the
                        text, 'Now all this was then undeveloped. It became developed by form
                        and name' (Bri. Up. I, 4, 7), states merely that the names and forms
                        of the souls were developed, and this shows that the souls themselves
                        existed from the beginning. Smriti also says, 'Dost thou know both
                        Prakriti and the soul to be without beginning?' (Bha. Gî. XIII,
                        19.)--As Brahman thus differs in nature from everything else, possesses all powers, has no other motive than sport, and arranges the
                        diversity of the creation in accordance with the different karman of
                        the individual souls, Brahman alone can be the universal cause.






                        Summary



                        The Jivatma is eternal (was never created), and has always been in Samsara. According to the Vedas, the Jivatma takes birth in a body according to it's karma done in previous bodies. This implies that the soul has no first birth.






                        share|improve this answer






























                          1















                          Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




                          According to Vedanta, there is no first birth. The Jivatma has no beginning in the cycle of life and death.



                          The great Vedantic philosopher Rāmānujāchārya has stated in his work Vedartha Sangraha, or "summary of the meaning of the Vedas," the following:




                          The crown of Vedas i.e., The Upanishads, which lays down the good of
                          the whole world, enshrines this truth: A seeker, after first acquiring
                          a true understanding of the individual self and the Supreme and
                          equipped with the performance of the duties pertaining to his station
                          in life, must devote himself to the meditation, worship and adoring
                          salutation of the blessed feet of the supreme Person. This done with
                          immeasurable joy leads to the attainment of the Supreme.



                          The
                          individual self is subject to beginningless nescience, which has
                          brought about an accumulation of karma, of the nature of both merit
                          and demerit.
                          The flood of such karma causes his entry into four kinds
                          of bodies — heavenly, human, animal and plant beginning with that of
                          Brahma downwards. This ingression into bodies produces the delusion of
                          identity with those respective bodies (and the consequent attachments
                          and aversions). This delusion inevitably brings about all the fears
                          inherent in the state of worldly existence. The entire body of Vedanta
                          aims at the annihilation of these fears.......



                          The [Brahma Sutra] aphorisms connected with this issue are, ‘Partiality and cruelty
                          are not to be ascribed to Brahman, because of the dependence on
                          karma’, and ‘If it be said, “There is no karma, as there was no
                          differentiation” we deny that supposition on the ground of
                          beginninglessness; it is reasonable and so found in actuality
                          (B.S. 2;1:35-36)’.




                          The Brahma Sutras, written by Rishi Vedavyasa, themselves state that the Jivatma has no beginning in samsara; there was no "first birth."




                          2.1.34 - Not inequality and cruelty, on account of there being regard; for so (Scripture) declares.



                          2.1.35 - If it be said 'not so, on account of non-distinction of deeds'; we say, 'not so, on account of beginninglessness'; this is reasonable, and it is also observed.




                          Ramanujacharya's commentary for Sutra 2.1.35:




                          But before creation the individual souls do not exist; since Scripture
                          teaches non-distinction 'Being only this was in the beginning.' And as
                          then the souls do not exist, no karman can exist, and it cannot
                          therefore be said that the inequality of creation depends on
                          karman.--Of this objection the Sûtra disposes by saying 'on account of
                          beginninglessness,' i.e. although the individual souls and their deeds
                          form an eternal stream, without a beginning
                          , yet non-distinction of
                          them 'is reasonable' (i.e. may reasonably be asserted) in so far as,
                          previous to creation, the substance of the souls abides in a very
                          subtle condition, destitute of names and forms, and thus incapable of
                          being designated as something apart from Brahman, although in reality
                          then also they constitute Brahman's body only. If it were not admitted
                          (that the distinctions in the new creation are due to karman), it
                          would moreover follow that souls are requited for what they have not
                          done, and not requited for what they have done. The fact of the souls
                          being without a beginning is observed, viz., to be stated in
                          Scripture,'The intelligent one is not born and dies not' (Ka. Up. I,
                          2, 18); so also the fact of the flow of creation going on from all
                          eternity, 'As the creator formed sun and moon formerly.' Moreover, the
                          text, 'Now all this was then undeveloped. It became developed by form
                          and name' (Bri. Up. I, 4, 7), states merely that the names and forms
                          of the souls were developed, and this shows that the souls themselves
                          existed from the beginning. Smriti also says, 'Dost thou know both
                          Prakriti and the soul to be without beginning?' (Bha. Gî. XIII,
                          19.)--As Brahman thus differs in nature from everything else, possesses all powers, has no other motive than sport, and arranges the
                          diversity of the creation in accordance with the different karman of
                          the individual souls, Brahman alone can be the universal cause.






                          Summary



                          The Jivatma is eternal (was never created), and has always been in Samsara. According to the Vedas, the Jivatma takes birth in a body according to it's karma done in previous bodies. This implies that the soul has no first birth.






                          share|improve this answer




























                            1












                            1








                            1








                            Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




                            According to Vedanta, there is no first birth. The Jivatma has no beginning in the cycle of life and death.



                            The great Vedantic philosopher Rāmānujāchārya has stated in his work Vedartha Sangraha, or "summary of the meaning of the Vedas," the following:




                            The crown of Vedas i.e., The Upanishads, which lays down the good of
                            the whole world, enshrines this truth: A seeker, after first acquiring
                            a true understanding of the individual self and the Supreme and
                            equipped with the performance of the duties pertaining to his station
                            in life, must devote himself to the meditation, worship and adoring
                            salutation of the blessed feet of the supreme Person. This done with
                            immeasurable joy leads to the attainment of the Supreme.



                            The
                            individual self is subject to beginningless nescience, which has
                            brought about an accumulation of karma, of the nature of both merit
                            and demerit.
                            The flood of such karma causes his entry into four kinds
                            of bodies — heavenly, human, animal and plant beginning with that of
                            Brahma downwards. This ingression into bodies produces the delusion of
                            identity with those respective bodies (and the consequent attachments
                            and aversions). This delusion inevitably brings about all the fears
                            inherent in the state of worldly existence. The entire body of Vedanta
                            aims at the annihilation of these fears.......



                            The [Brahma Sutra] aphorisms connected with this issue are, ‘Partiality and cruelty
                            are not to be ascribed to Brahman, because of the dependence on
                            karma’, and ‘If it be said, “There is no karma, as there was no
                            differentiation” we deny that supposition on the ground of
                            beginninglessness; it is reasonable and so found in actuality
                            (B.S. 2;1:35-36)’.




                            The Brahma Sutras, written by Rishi Vedavyasa, themselves state that the Jivatma has no beginning in samsara; there was no "first birth."




                            2.1.34 - Not inequality and cruelty, on account of there being regard; for so (Scripture) declares.



                            2.1.35 - If it be said 'not so, on account of non-distinction of deeds'; we say, 'not so, on account of beginninglessness'; this is reasonable, and it is also observed.




                            Ramanujacharya's commentary for Sutra 2.1.35:




                            But before creation the individual souls do not exist; since Scripture
                            teaches non-distinction 'Being only this was in the beginning.' And as
                            then the souls do not exist, no karman can exist, and it cannot
                            therefore be said that the inequality of creation depends on
                            karman.--Of this objection the Sûtra disposes by saying 'on account of
                            beginninglessness,' i.e. although the individual souls and their deeds
                            form an eternal stream, without a beginning
                            , yet non-distinction of
                            them 'is reasonable' (i.e. may reasonably be asserted) in so far as,
                            previous to creation, the substance of the souls abides in a very
                            subtle condition, destitute of names and forms, and thus incapable of
                            being designated as something apart from Brahman, although in reality
                            then also they constitute Brahman's body only. If it were not admitted
                            (that the distinctions in the new creation are due to karman), it
                            would moreover follow that souls are requited for what they have not
                            done, and not requited for what they have done. The fact of the souls
                            being without a beginning is observed, viz., to be stated in
                            Scripture,'The intelligent one is not born and dies not' (Ka. Up. I,
                            2, 18); so also the fact of the flow of creation going on from all
                            eternity, 'As the creator formed sun and moon formerly.' Moreover, the
                            text, 'Now all this was then undeveloped. It became developed by form
                            and name' (Bri. Up. I, 4, 7), states merely that the names and forms
                            of the souls were developed, and this shows that the souls themselves
                            existed from the beginning. Smriti also says, 'Dost thou know both
                            Prakriti and the soul to be without beginning?' (Bha. Gî. XIII,
                            19.)--As Brahman thus differs in nature from everything else, possesses all powers, has no other motive than sport, and arranges the
                            diversity of the creation in accordance with the different karman of
                            the individual souls, Brahman alone can be the universal cause.






                            Summary



                            The Jivatma is eternal (was never created), and has always been in Samsara. According to the Vedas, the Jivatma takes birth in a body according to it's karma done in previous bodies. This implies that the soul has no first birth.






                            share|improve this answer
















                            Now how will the life be determined for people in their very first birth since they have no previous birth to derive from ?




                            According to Vedanta, there is no first birth. The Jivatma has no beginning in the cycle of life and death.



                            The great Vedantic philosopher Rāmānujāchārya has stated in his work Vedartha Sangraha, or "summary of the meaning of the Vedas," the following:




                            The crown of Vedas i.e., The Upanishads, which lays down the good of
                            the whole world, enshrines this truth: A seeker, after first acquiring
                            a true understanding of the individual self and the Supreme and
                            equipped with the performance of the duties pertaining to his station
                            in life, must devote himself to the meditation, worship and adoring
                            salutation of the blessed feet of the supreme Person. This done with
                            immeasurable joy leads to the attainment of the Supreme.



                            The
                            individual self is subject to beginningless nescience, which has
                            brought about an accumulation of karma, of the nature of both merit
                            and demerit.
                            The flood of such karma causes his entry into four kinds
                            of bodies — heavenly, human, animal and plant beginning with that of
                            Brahma downwards. This ingression into bodies produces the delusion of
                            identity with those respective bodies (and the consequent attachments
                            and aversions). This delusion inevitably brings about all the fears
                            inherent in the state of worldly existence. The entire body of Vedanta
                            aims at the annihilation of these fears.......



                            The [Brahma Sutra] aphorisms connected with this issue are, ‘Partiality and cruelty
                            are not to be ascribed to Brahman, because of the dependence on
                            karma’, and ‘If it be said, “There is no karma, as there was no
                            differentiation” we deny that supposition on the ground of
                            beginninglessness; it is reasonable and so found in actuality
                            (B.S. 2;1:35-36)’.




                            The Brahma Sutras, written by Rishi Vedavyasa, themselves state that the Jivatma has no beginning in samsara; there was no "first birth."




                            2.1.34 - Not inequality and cruelty, on account of there being regard; for so (Scripture) declares.



                            2.1.35 - If it be said 'not so, on account of non-distinction of deeds'; we say, 'not so, on account of beginninglessness'; this is reasonable, and it is also observed.




                            Ramanujacharya's commentary for Sutra 2.1.35:




                            But before creation the individual souls do not exist; since Scripture
                            teaches non-distinction 'Being only this was in the beginning.' And as
                            then the souls do not exist, no karman can exist, and it cannot
                            therefore be said that the inequality of creation depends on
                            karman.--Of this objection the Sûtra disposes by saying 'on account of
                            beginninglessness,' i.e. although the individual souls and their deeds
                            form an eternal stream, without a beginning
                            , yet non-distinction of
                            them 'is reasonable' (i.e. may reasonably be asserted) in so far as,
                            previous to creation, the substance of the souls abides in a very
                            subtle condition, destitute of names and forms, and thus incapable of
                            being designated as something apart from Brahman, although in reality
                            then also they constitute Brahman's body only. If it were not admitted
                            (that the distinctions in the new creation are due to karman), it
                            would moreover follow that souls are requited for what they have not
                            done, and not requited for what they have done. The fact of the souls
                            being without a beginning is observed, viz., to be stated in
                            Scripture,'The intelligent one is not born and dies not' (Ka. Up. I,
                            2, 18); so also the fact of the flow of creation going on from all
                            eternity, 'As the creator formed sun and moon formerly.' Moreover, the
                            text, 'Now all this was then undeveloped. It became developed by form
                            and name' (Bri. Up. I, 4, 7), states merely that the names and forms
                            of the souls were developed, and this shows that the souls themselves
                            existed from the beginning. Smriti also says, 'Dost thou know both
                            Prakriti and the soul to be without beginning?' (Bha. Gî. XIII,
                            19.)--As Brahman thus differs in nature from everything else, possesses all powers, has no other motive than sport, and arranges the
                            diversity of the creation in accordance with the different karman of
                            the individual souls, Brahman alone can be the universal cause.






                            Summary



                            The Jivatma is eternal (was never created), and has always been in Samsara. According to the Vedas, the Jivatma takes birth in a body according to it's karma done in previous bodies. This implies that the soul has no first birth.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








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