Is 'bouncing' an airliner on landing in high winds a deliberate technique, or something always unexpected?
$begingroup$
Last week, 767 landing at Newark, high winds, a good deal of rocking in the last few minutes, some passengers quite distressed. The landing was harder and noisier than usual, and we immediately floated upwards, must have been a couple of seconds before we landed again.
The question I have is - in these circumstances (high winds), would the pilots have been flying the landing with a little less flare than usual and anticipating the bounce as a way of shrugging off some speed / energy; or, is it something you never quite know if it's going to happen or not, and would rather didn't happen at all?
airliner landing pilot-technique
asked 5 hours ago
Party ArkParty Ark
2,0741029
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Last week, 767 landing at Newark, high winds, a good deal of rocking in the last few minutes, some passengers quite distressed. The landing was harder and noisier than usual, and we immediately floated upwards, must have been a couple of seconds before we landed again.
The question I have is - in these circumstances (high winds), would the pilots have been flying the landing with a little less flare than usual and anticipating the bounce as a way of shrugging off some speed / energy; or, is it something you never quite know if it's going to happen or not, and would rather didn't happen at all?
airliner landing pilot-technique
asked 5 hours ago
Party ArkParty Ark
2,0741029
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Firm landings are entirely intentional in strong winds, as the answers say though, the bounce is not.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
The "noise" may have been the reverse thrust of the jet engines working a little harder. Bouncing up a few feet isn't perfect, but it is one reason the main gear is supported by the strongest part of the plane, the wing spar structure.
$endgroup$
– Robert DiGiovanni
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Last week, 767 landing at Newark, high winds, a good deal of rocking in the last few minutes, some passengers quite distressed. The landing was harder and noisier than usual, and we immediately floated upwards, must have been a couple of seconds before we landed again.
The question I have is - in these circumstances (high winds), would the pilots have been flying the landing with a little less flare than usual and anticipating the bounce as a way of shrugging off some speed / energy; or, is it something you never quite know if it's going to happen or not, and would rather didn't happen at all?
airliner landing pilot-technique
asked 5 hours ago
Party ArkParty Ark
2,0741029
$endgroup$
Last week, 767 landing at Newark, high winds, a good deal of rocking in the last few minutes, some passengers quite distressed. The landing was harder and noisier than usual, and we immediately floated upwards, must have been a couple of seconds before we landed again.
The question I have is - in these circumstances (high winds), would the pilots have been flying the landing with a little less flare than usual and anticipating the bounce as a way of shrugging off some speed / energy; or, is it something you never quite know if it's going to happen or not, and would rather didn't happen at all?
airliner landing pilot-technique
airliner landing pilot-technique
asked 5 hours ago
Party ArkParty Ark
2,0741029
asked 5 hours ago
Party ArkParty Ark
2,0741029
asked 5 hours ago
Party ArkParty Ark
2,0741029
asked 5 hours ago
Party ArkParty Ark
2,0741029
asked 5 hours ago
Party ArkParty Ark
2,0741029
2,0741029
$begingroup$
Firm landings are entirely intentional in strong winds, as the answers say though, the bounce is not.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
The "noise" may have been the reverse thrust of the jet engines working a little harder. Bouncing up a few feet isn't perfect, but it is one reason the main gear is supported by the strongest part of the plane, the wing spar structure.
$endgroup$
– Robert DiGiovanni
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Firm landings are entirely intentional in strong winds, as the answers say though, the bounce is not.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
The "noise" may have been the reverse thrust of the jet engines working a little harder. Bouncing up a few feet isn't perfect, but it is one reason the main gear is supported by the strongest part of the plane, the wing spar structure.
$endgroup$
– Robert DiGiovanni
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Firm landings are entirely intentional in strong winds, as the answers say though, the bounce is not.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
Firm landings are entirely intentional in strong winds, as the answers say though, the bounce is not.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
The "noise" may have been the reverse thrust of the jet engines working a little harder. Bouncing up a few feet isn't perfect, but it is one reason the main gear is supported by the strongest part of the plane, the wing spar structure.
$endgroup$
– Robert DiGiovanni
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
The "noise" may have been the reverse thrust of the jet engines working a little harder. Bouncing up a few feet isn't perfect, but it is one reason the main gear is supported by the strongest part of the plane, the wing spar structure.
$endgroup$
– Robert DiGiovanni
2 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Bouncing a landing is neither intentional nor desirable. There are several reasons why a student pilot might bounce, but for a professional pilot, it's most likely related to wind gusts, which are a challenge no matter how much training and experience you have.
Gusts are by their nature unpredictable, and if one hits the plane right as it's touching down, it can suddenly lurch upward and/or downward, resulting in a bounce. That's probably also why your plane was "rocking" before landing.
answered 4 hours ago
StephenSStephenS
2,670316
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bounces are bad news on airliners because you are becoming airborne again just as the lift dumpers pop out, which makes the second touchdown even more exciting and often leads to hard landing inspections, and in extreme cases broken gears.
The lift dump spoilers are supposed to limit bouncing tendency, but if you come down hard enough there is so much energy stored and released they don't come out fast enough or they are ineffective initially when they do or on some airplanes they won't even be triggered until the nose wheel is down.
When you have a significant bounce on a jet you aren't supposed to try to save the landing. It should be "go around - set thrust" and get out of there. It's called a "Balked Landing" which is a go-around initiated in a low energy state close to the ground. You MUST get the lift dumpers retracted, or prevent them from coming out, and setting go-around thrust will do that. You may touch down again and probably will, but you are supposed to continue with the go around.
There was an Air Canada Jazz RJ that bounced on landing and they tried to save the landing, but the bounce was so high and the lift dumpers were out so they collapsed one of the main gears on the second landing.
Like everything, there are nuances; a little skip, maybe only one gear touched, maybe they feel a balked landing procedure is more dangerous in gusty crosswinds than just landing, so a lot of crews will try to save it. So maybe this crew did a bad thing, maybe not. Without a lot more details, hard to say.
answered 1 hour ago
John KJohn K
16.3k11748
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The reason an aircraft "bounces" on touch down is that it is going too fast to "settle" on the runway. Bouncing is far better than "pancaking" from 15 feet off the ground because you were going too slow. The difference is only a few knots in airspeed, especially for light GA aircraft.
Landing in gusty or variable winds will never be a perfect science. A light bounce only means the pilot erred on the side of caution, with plenty of runway to do it.
answered 2 hours ago
Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni
1,8561315
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Usually bouncing is completely undesirable, because this will increase your landing distance quite significantly to the extend you might overrun the runway if you don’t go around.... so better avoid it...
answered 5 hours ago
HeliomasterHeliomaster
35914
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Bouncing a landing is neither intentional nor desirable. There are several reasons why a student pilot might bounce, but for a professional pilot, it's most likely related to wind gusts, which are a challenge no matter how much training and experience you have.
Gusts are by their nature unpredictable, and if one hits the plane right as it's touching down, it can suddenly lurch upward and/or downward, resulting in a bounce. That's probably also why your plane was "rocking" before landing.
answered 4 hours ago
StephenSStephenS
2,670316
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bouncing a landing is neither intentional nor desirable. There are several reasons why a student pilot might bounce, but for a professional pilot, it's most likely related to wind gusts, which are a challenge no matter how much training and experience you have.
Gusts are by their nature unpredictable, and if one hits the plane right as it's touching down, it can suddenly lurch upward and/or downward, resulting in a bounce. That's probably also why your plane was "rocking" before landing.
answered 4 hours ago
StephenSStephenS
2,670316
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bouncing a landing is neither intentional nor desirable. There are several reasons why a student pilot might bounce, but for a professional pilot, it's most likely related to wind gusts, which are a challenge no matter how much training and experience you have.
Gusts are by their nature unpredictable, and if one hits the plane right as it's touching down, it can suddenly lurch upward and/or downward, resulting in a bounce. That's probably also why your plane was "rocking" before landing.
answered 4 hours ago
StephenSStephenS
2,670316
$endgroup$
Bouncing a landing is neither intentional nor desirable. There are several reasons why a student pilot might bounce, but for a professional pilot, it's most likely related to wind gusts, which are a challenge no matter how much training and experience you have.
Gusts are by their nature unpredictable, and if one hits the plane right as it's touching down, it can suddenly lurch upward and/or downward, resulting in a bounce. That's probably also why your plane was "rocking" before landing.
answered 4 hours ago
StephenSStephenS
2,670316
edited 3 hours ago
answered 4 hours ago
StephenSStephenS
2,670316
answered 4 hours ago
StephenSStephenS
2,670316
answered 4 hours ago
StephenSStephenS
2,670316
2,670316
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bounces are bad news on airliners because you are becoming airborne again just as the lift dumpers pop out, which makes the second touchdown even more exciting and often leads to hard landing inspections, and in extreme cases broken gears.
The lift dump spoilers are supposed to limit bouncing tendency, but if you come down hard enough there is so much energy stored and released they don't come out fast enough or they are ineffective initially when they do or on some airplanes they won't even be triggered until the nose wheel is down.
When you have a significant bounce on a jet you aren't supposed to try to save the landing. It should be "go around - set thrust" and get out of there. It's called a "Balked Landing" which is a go-around initiated in a low energy state close to the ground. You MUST get the lift dumpers retracted, or prevent them from coming out, and setting go-around thrust will do that. You may touch down again and probably will, but you are supposed to continue with the go around.
There was an Air Canada Jazz RJ that bounced on landing and they tried to save the landing, but the bounce was so high and the lift dumpers were out so they collapsed one of the main gears on the second landing.
Like everything, there are nuances; a little skip, maybe only one gear touched, maybe they feel a balked landing procedure is more dangerous in gusty crosswinds than just landing, so a lot of crews will try to save it. So maybe this crew did a bad thing, maybe not. Without a lot more details, hard to say.
answered 1 hour ago
John KJohn K
16.3k11748
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bounces are bad news on airliners because you are becoming airborne again just as the lift dumpers pop out, which makes the second touchdown even more exciting and often leads to hard landing inspections, and in extreme cases broken gears.
The lift dump spoilers are supposed to limit bouncing tendency, but if you come down hard enough there is so much energy stored and released they don't come out fast enough or they are ineffective initially when they do or on some airplanes they won't even be triggered until the nose wheel is down.
When you have a significant bounce on a jet you aren't supposed to try to save the landing. It should be "go around - set thrust" and get out of there. It's called a "Balked Landing" which is a go-around initiated in a low energy state close to the ground. You MUST get the lift dumpers retracted, or prevent them from coming out, and setting go-around thrust will do that. You may touch down again and probably will, but you are supposed to continue with the go around.
There was an Air Canada Jazz RJ that bounced on landing and they tried to save the landing, but the bounce was so high and the lift dumpers were out so they collapsed one of the main gears on the second landing.
Like everything, there are nuances; a little skip, maybe only one gear touched, maybe they feel a balked landing procedure is more dangerous in gusty crosswinds than just landing, so a lot of crews will try to save it. So maybe this crew did a bad thing, maybe not. Without a lot more details, hard to say.
answered 1 hour ago
John KJohn K
16.3k11748
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bounces are bad news on airliners because you are becoming airborne again just as the lift dumpers pop out, which makes the second touchdown even more exciting and often leads to hard landing inspections, and in extreme cases broken gears.
The lift dump spoilers are supposed to limit bouncing tendency, but if you come down hard enough there is so much energy stored and released they don't come out fast enough or they are ineffective initially when they do or on some airplanes they won't even be triggered until the nose wheel is down.
When you have a significant bounce on a jet you aren't supposed to try to save the landing. It should be "go around - set thrust" and get out of there. It's called a "Balked Landing" which is a go-around initiated in a low energy state close to the ground. You MUST get the lift dumpers retracted, or prevent them from coming out, and setting go-around thrust will do that. You may touch down again and probably will, but you are supposed to continue with the go around.
There was an Air Canada Jazz RJ that bounced on landing and they tried to save the landing, but the bounce was so high and the lift dumpers were out so they collapsed one of the main gears on the second landing.
Like everything, there are nuances; a little skip, maybe only one gear touched, maybe they feel a balked landing procedure is more dangerous in gusty crosswinds than just landing, so a lot of crews will try to save it. So maybe this crew did a bad thing, maybe not. Without a lot more details, hard to say.
answered 1 hour ago
John KJohn K
16.3k11748
$endgroup$
Bounces are bad news on airliners because you are becoming airborne again just as the lift dumpers pop out, which makes the second touchdown even more exciting and often leads to hard landing inspections, and in extreme cases broken gears.
The lift dump spoilers are supposed to limit bouncing tendency, but if you come down hard enough there is so much energy stored and released they don't come out fast enough or they are ineffective initially when they do or on some airplanes they won't even be triggered until the nose wheel is down.
When you have a significant bounce on a jet you aren't supposed to try to save the landing. It should be "go around - set thrust" and get out of there. It's called a "Balked Landing" which is a go-around initiated in a low energy state close to the ground. You MUST get the lift dumpers retracted, or prevent them from coming out, and setting go-around thrust will do that. You may touch down again and probably will, but you are supposed to continue with the go around.
There was an Air Canada Jazz RJ that bounced on landing and they tried to save the landing, but the bounce was so high and the lift dumpers were out so they collapsed one of the main gears on the second landing.
Like everything, there are nuances; a little skip, maybe only one gear touched, maybe they feel a balked landing procedure is more dangerous in gusty crosswinds than just landing, so a lot of crews will try to save it. So maybe this crew did a bad thing, maybe not. Without a lot more details, hard to say.
answered 1 hour ago
John KJohn K
16.3k11748
answered 1 hour ago
John KJohn K
16.3k11748
answered 1 hour ago
John KJohn K
16.3k11748
answered 1 hour ago
John KJohn K
16.3k11748
16.3k11748
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The reason an aircraft "bounces" on touch down is that it is going too fast to "settle" on the runway. Bouncing is far better than "pancaking" from 15 feet off the ground because you were going too slow. The difference is only a few knots in airspeed, especially for light GA aircraft.
Landing in gusty or variable winds will never be a perfect science. A light bounce only means the pilot erred on the side of caution, with plenty of runway to do it.
answered 2 hours ago
Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni
1,8561315
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The reason an aircraft "bounces" on touch down is that it is going too fast to "settle" on the runway. Bouncing is far better than "pancaking" from 15 feet off the ground because you were going too slow. The difference is only a few knots in airspeed, especially for light GA aircraft.
Landing in gusty or variable winds will never be a perfect science. A light bounce only means the pilot erred on the side of caution, with plenty of runway to do it.
answered 2 hours ago
Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni
1,8561315
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The reason an aircraft "bounces" on touch down is that it is going too fast to "settle" on the runway. Bouncing is far better than "pancaking" from 15 feet off the ground because you were going too slow. The difference is only a few knots in airspeed, especially for light GA aircraft.
Landing in gusty or variable winds will never be a perfect science. A light bounce only means the pilot erred on the side of caution, with plenty of runway to do it.
answered 2 hours ago
Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni
1,8561315
$endgroup$
The reason an aircraft "bounces" on touch down is that it is going too fast to "settle" on the runway. Bouncing is far better than "pancaking" from 15 feet off the ground because you were going too slow. The difference is only a few knots in airspeed, especially for light GA aircraft.
Landing in gusty or variable winds will never be a perfect science. A light bounce only means the pilot erred on the side of caution, with plenty of runway to do it.
answered 2 hours ago
Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni
1,8561315
answered 2 hours ago
Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni
1,8561315
answered 2 hours ago
Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni
1,8561315
answered 2 hours ago
Robert DiGiovanniRobert DiGiovanni
1,8561315
1,8561315
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Usually bouncing is completely undesirable, because this will increase your landing distance quite significantly to the extend you might overrun the runway if you don’t go around.... so better avoid it...
answered 5 hours ago
HeliomasterHeliomaster
35914
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Usually bouncing is completely undesirable, because this will increase your landing distance quite significantly to the extend you might overrun the runway if you don’t go around.... so better avoid it...
answered 5 hours ago
HeliomasterHeliomaster
35914
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Usually bouncing is completely undesirable, because this will increase your landing distance quite significantly to the extend you might overrun the runway if you don’t go around.... so better avoid it...
answered 5 hours ago
HeliomasterHeliomaster
35914
$endgroup$
Usually bouncing is completely undesirable, because this will increase your landing distance quite significantly to the extend you might overrun the runway if you don’t go around.... so better avoid it...
answered 5 hours ago
HeliomasterHeliomaster
35914
answered 5 hours ago
HeliomasterHeliomaster
35914
answered 5 hours ago
HeliomasterHeliomaster
35914
answered 5 hours ago
HeliomasterHeliomaster
35914
35914
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Firm landings are entirely intentional in strong winds, as the answers say though, the bounce is not.
$endgroup$
– Ron Beyer
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
The "noise" may have been the reverse thrust of the jet engines working a little harder. Bouncing up a few feet isn't perfect, but it is one reason the main gear is supported by the strongest part of the plane, the wing spar structure.
$endgroup$
– Robert DiGiovanni
2 hours ago