Is a “Democratic” Feudal System Possible?
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I am considering a story where a group of human colonists looking to colonize an alien world come across another human society on an alien world on the other side of a wormhole. The colonists crash land on this world after an incident and discover this society. As it turns out, the humans on this world are actually descendants of many people abducted from earth by alien "overlords" over the course of several millennia seeking to use them for a social experiment.
The purpose of said experiential was to see how these people, from various regions of earth and time, would interact with each other over the course of these millennia. Fast forward in time and these humans and their descendants have populated this world, known as Rhye, and have become rather technologically advanced, say beginning of twentieth century Earth, but with some near future technology. Keep in mind this tech is at least one-two hundred years behind the tech the colonists have. The colonists, however, despite their shock to see this human society on this world, discover that these people basically recreated Earth. There are nations, borders, wars and even a UN often referred to as the "Planetary Council".
But what really catches their attention is the fact that these humans, given the different eras of human history they came from, have developed a medieval democratic feudal society where social class and upbringing determines your status but extensive capitalism and representative governments are still a thing. The governments are typically run by the more wealthy and superior classes. Social rank is predetermined by birth but one can work their way out of or into another class if they choose. But they get one opportunity. There are Templars, military orders that protect the nation's and kingdoms; but at the same time there are republics, modern government branches, air forces, armies, navies, and even space agencies.
So my question is as follows: Is a Democratic-Feudal society a stable society? Please let me know if I need to add anything detail wise if you need clarification.
society science-fiction government space-colonization
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am considering a story where a group of human colonists looking to colonize an alien world come across another human society on an alien world on the other side of a wormhole. The colonists crash land on this world after an incident and discover this society. As it turns out, the humans on this world are actually descendants of many people abducted from earth by alien "overlords" over the course of several millennia seeking to use them for a social experiment.
The purpose of said experiential was to see how these people, from various regions of earth and time, would interact with each other over the course of these millennia. Fast forward in time and these humans and their descendants have populated this world, known as Rhye, and have become rather technologically advanced, say beginning of twentieth century Earth, but with some near future technology. Keep in mind this tech is at least one-two hundred years behind the tech the colonists have. The colonists, however, despite their shock to see this human society on this world, discover that these people basically recreated Earth. There are nations, borders, wars and even a UN often referred to as the "Planetary Council".
But what really catches their attention is the fact that these humans, given the different eras of human history they came from, have developed a medieval democratic feudal society where social class and upbringing determines your status but extensive capitalism and representative governments are still a thing. The governments are typically run by the more wealthy and superior classes. Social rank is predetermined by birth but one can work their way out of or into another class if they choose. But they get one opportunity. There are Templars, military orders that protect the nation's and kingdoms; but at the same time there are republics, modern government branches, air forces, armies, navies, and even space agencies.
So my question is as follows: Is a Democratic-Feudal society a stable society? Please let me know if I need to add anything detail wise if you need clarification.
society science-fiction government space-colonization
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1
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What you are describing seems to be more of a oligarchy and not a feudal society.
$endgroup$
– Sebastian
1 hour ago
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A cynical person might suggest that societies only seem stable, and most stay that way due to lucky circumstances...
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Anyway, I don't really have enough to form a useful answer, but you might consider a society that has a "voting class" to be a step towards your theoretical society. In the limit, you get something like the prince-electors.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am considering a story where a group of human colonists looking to colonize an alien world come across another human society on an alien world on the other side of a wormhole. The colonists crash land on this world after an incident and discover this society. As it turns out, the humans on this world are actually descendants of many people abducted from earth by alien "overlords" over the course of several millennia seeking to use them for a social experiment.
The purpose of said experiential was to see how these people, from various regions of earth and time, would interact with each other over the course of these millennia. Fast forward in time and these humans and their descendants have populated this world, known as Rhye, and have become rather technologically advanced, say beginning of twentieth century Earth, but with some near future technology. Keep in mind this tech is at least one-two hundred years behind the tech the colonists have. The colonists, however, despite their shock to see this human society on this world, discover that these people basically recreated Earth. There are nations, borders, wars and even a UN often referred to as the "Planetary Council".
But what really catches their attention is the fact that these humans, given the different eras of human history they came from, have developed a medieval democratic feudal society where social class and upbringing determines your status but extensive capitalism and representative governments are still a thing. The governments are typically run by the more wealthy and superior classes. Social rank is predetermined by birth but one can work their way out of or into another class if they choose. But they get one opportunity. There are Templars, military orders that protect the nation's and kingdoms; but at the same time there are republics, modern government branches, air forces, armies, navies, and even space agencies.
So my question is as follows: Is a Democratic-Feudal society a stable society? Please let me know if I need to add anything detail wise if you need clarification.
society science-fiction government space-colonization
$endgroup$
I am considering a story where a group of human colonists looking to colonize an alien world come across another human society on an alien world on the other side of a wormhole. The colonists crash land on this world after an incident and discover this society. As it turns out, the humans on this world are actually descendants of many people abducted from earth by alien "overlords" over the course of several millennia seeking to use them for a social experiment.
The purpose of said experiential was to see how these people, from various regions of earth and time, would interact with each other over the course of these millennia. Fast forward in time and these humans and their descendants have populated this world, known as Rhye, and have become rather technologically advanced, say beginning of twentieth century Earth, but with some near future technology. Keep in mind this tech is at least one-two hundred years behind the tech the colonists have. The colonists, however, despite their shock to see this human society on this world, discover that these people basically recreated Earth. There are nations, borders, wars and even a UN often referred to as the "Planetary Council".
But what really catches their attention is the fact that these humans, given the different eras of human history they came from, have developed a medieval democratic feudal society where social class and upbringing determines your status but extensive capitalism and representative governments are still a thing. The governments are typically run by the more wealthy and superior classes. Social rank is predetermined by birth but one can work their way out of or into another class if they choose. But they get one opportunity. There are Templars, military orders that protect the nation's and kingdoms; but at the same time there are republics, modern government branches, air forces, armies, navies, and even space agencies.
So my question is as follows: Is a Democratic-Feudal society a stable society? Please let me know if I need to add anything detail wise if you need clarification.
society science-fiction government space-colonization
society science-fiction government space-colonization
edited 39 mins ago
Noah
asked 2 hours ago
NoahNoah
442313
442313
1
$begingroup$
What you are describing seems to be more of a oligarchy and not a feudal society.
$endgroup$
– Sebastian
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
A cynical person might suggest that societies only seem stable, and most stay that way due to lucky circumstances...
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Anyway, I don't really have enough to form a useful answer, but you might consider a society that has a "voting class" to be a step towards your theoretical society. In the limit, you get something like the prince-electors.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
What you are describing seems to be more of a oligarchy and not a feudal society.
$endgroup$
– Sebastian
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
A cynical person might suggest that societies only seem stable, and most stay that way due to lucky circumstances...
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Anyway, I don't really have enough to form a useful answer, but you might consider a society that has a "voting class" to be a step towards your theoretical society. In the limit, you get something like the prince-electors.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
1
1
$begingroup$
What you are describing seems to be more of a oligarchy and not a feudal society.
$endgroup$
– Sebastian
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
What you are describing seems to be more of a oligarchy and not a feudal society.
$endgroup$
– Sebastian
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
A cynical person might suggest that societies only seem stable, and most stay that way due to lucky circumstances...
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
A cynical person might suggest that societies only seem stable, and most stay that way due to lucky circumstances...
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Anyway, I don't really have enough to form a useful answer, but you might consider a society that has a "voting class" to be a step towards your theoretical society. In the limit, you get something like the prince-electors.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Anyway, I don't really have enough to form a useful answer, but you might consider a society that has a "voting class" to be a step towards your theoretical society. In the limit, you get something like the prince-electors.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
One important aspect of Feudalism, and why it came about in the first place, that is often overlooked from a modern viewpoint is that Feudalism is a two way social structure:
Those who are at the top and supported by those below them aren't originally up there looking out for purely their own self interest, but rather their role in society was to be that of protector and manager.
Lower classes swear loyalty to an upper class not because they were lowly dirt dwelling scum who got nothing out of it, but rather they swear loyalty in exchange for protection, peace, and organization.
"I work this land, give you part of my yearly labour, and otherwise support you, and you and all your buddies promise to help me live in peace and good health, and keep those far off foreigners from killing all the men and running off with the gold and women..." ["And maybe I'll help you go to those foreign lands to take their stuff..."]
(Consider this social construct to the modern "I promise to work for your company, and you promise to lay me off whenever you think that might help you buy a bigger house/yacht/jet/whatever." - Humanity is weird.)
So you have multiple ways to structure things:
- Do the lords and protectors get elected?
- Are there multiple layers of government, based on social class, with elected elements? [In human history we have any number of examples advisers elected to government representing various class levels.]
- A mix and match of elected/hereditary/religious titles?
At its heart, a democratic-feudal structure is no less stable than a democratic "Vote for me so I can plunder the nation for my four year term for my own/my friend's/family's benefit" politics we see today.
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$begingroup$
Yes, I wanted the Lords and Kings to be elected by either the peasants or the class they are in. Preferably the former. The government can be described as military orders loyal to the government (army, navy, air force), a Congress/parlimant, the Hiearchy (the ruling class), then the King (elected head if state). Essentially, I am trying to create a near medieval society with a modern touch.
$endgroup$
– Noah
40 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Define feudalism
When you say "feudal," what do you actually mean?
Feudalism is defined by Brittanica as
the social, economic, and political conditions in western Europe
during the early Middle Ages, the long stretch of time between the 5th
and 12th centuries.
There were basically no democratic systems that existed during that time period, and limited republican systems, so by a strict definition of feudalism, the answer is a clear "No". Since there were no democratic polities that existed in Western Europe in the 5th to 12th centuries, democratic-feudalism is an oxymoron.
Do you want "feudalism" or a class stratified society with voting?
If you want the latter, then there are plenty of examples to go around.
- In the strict medieval period of Western Europe, though mostly later than the 12th century, the Venetian Republic operated with limited male suffrage, as did several other city-states of Italy, such as Florence.
- A less republican Late Medieval variant was the Golden Liberty of Poland, where only the nobles got to vote. This process proceeded somewhat slowly, but a landmark was the 1505 Nihil Novi an act forbidding the King from passing laws without the consent of the Sejm.
- The paragon of a democratic yet class-based society would be England. Democracy developed slowly from the Magna Carta. By the time of the English Civil War (1640s) and Glorious Revolution (1688), the authority of Parliament, even over the King, was well established. The English Bill of Rights of 1689 established free elections to the House of Commons. The electorate was reasonably open for most of the later Middle Ages. But, an 1432 law established eligibility as landowners who held more property worth 40 shillings of rent. While this did not de jure restrict women from voting, in practice custom forbade it.
But, note, universal male suffrage did not appear until the French revolution in 1792. The first country with permanent universal male suffrage was Greece in 1844; universal suffrage was first in New Zealand in 1893 (though some territories and states, like Wyoming, had it as far back as 1869). Without a revolutionary era as happened at the end of the 18th century on actual Earth, it is unlikely that suffrage would be universal, or ever extended to all men without property.
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Is it possible where Lords and Kings can be elected into a position by his subjects or own class? I say feudalism where we have Kings, Lords and the lower class aka peasants. But it's more of a modern take with democratic elections and representation of the lower class. Doesn't mean they have power over the government but they do have leverage over the officials. If the peasants do not like then, they might as well expect a revolution.
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– Noah
45 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Feudalism has three main parts, lords, lands, and vassals. The lords own the lands and lords owe their loyalty to other lords supplying mutual military and economic support. The peasantry are tied to the land. Nothing says the lords can't be elected by the peasants they rule. Involving complex capitalism would make things a little more complex. A corporation might fit in with the lords, owning land and the workers on it while pledging loyalty to a lord or other corporation.
A strict social hierarchy is not necessarily a requirement of feudalism though.
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add a comment |
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
3
active
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$begingroup$
One important aspect of Feudalism, and why it came about in the first place, that is often overlooked from a modern viewpoint is that Feudalism is a two way social structure:
Those who are at the top and supported by those below them aren't originally up there looking out for purely their own self interest, but rather their role in society was to be that of protector and manager.
Lower classes swear loyalty to an upper class not because they were lowly dirt dwelling scum who got nothing out of it, but rather they swear loyalty in exchange for protection, peace, and organization.
"I work this land, give you part of my yearly labour, and otherwise support you, and you and all your buddies promise to help me live in peace and good health, and keep those far off foreigners from killing all the men and running off with the gold and women..." ["And maybe I'll help you go to those foreign lands to take their stuff..."]
(Consider this social construct to the modern "I promise to work for your company, and you promise to lay me off whenever you think that might help you buy a bigger house/yacht/jet/whatever." - Humanity is weird.)
So you have multiple ways to structure things:
- Do the lords and protectors get elected?
- Are there multiple layers of government, based on social class, with elected elements? [In human history we have any number of examples advisers elected to government representing various class levels.]
- A mix and match of elected/hereditary/religious titles?
At its heart, a democratic-feudal structure is no less stable than a democratic "Vote for me so I can plunder the nation for my four year term for my own/my friend's/family's benefit" politics we see today.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Yes, I wanted the Lords and Kings to be elected by either the peasants or the class they are in. Preferably the former. The government can be described as military orders loyal to the government (army, navy, air force), a Congress/parlimant, the Hiearchy (the ruling class), then the King (elected head if state). Essentially, I am trying to create a near medieval society with a modern touch.
$endgroup$
– Noah
40 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
One important aspect of Feudalism, and why it came about in the first place, that is often overlooked from a modern viewpoint is that Feudalism is a two way social structure:
Those who are at the top and supported by those below them aren't originally up there looking out for purely their own self interest, but rather their role in society was to be that of protector and manager.
Lower classes swear loyalty to an upper class not because they were lowly dirt dwelling scum who got nothing out of it, but rather they swear loyalty in exchange for protection, peace, and organization.
"I work this land, give you part of my yearly labour, and otherwise support you, and you and all your buddies promise to help me live in peace and good health, and keep those far off foreigners from killing all the men and running off with the gold and women..." ["And maybe I'll help you go to those foreign lands to take their stuff..."]
(Consider this social construct to the modern "I promise to work for your company, and you promise to lay me off whenever you think that might help you buy a bigger house/yacht/jet/whatever." - Humanity is weird.)
So you have multiple ways to structure things:
- Do the lords and protectors get elected?
- Are there multiple layers of government, based on social class, with elected elements? [In human history we have any number of examples advisers elected to government representing various class levels.]
- A mix and match of elected/hereditary/religious titles?
At its heart, a democratic-feudal structure is no less stable than a democratic "Vote for me so I can plunder the nation for my four year term for my own/my friend's/family's benefit" politics we see today.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Yes, I wanted the Lords and Kings to be elected by either the peasants or the class they are in. Preferably the former. The government can be described as military orders loyal to the government (army, navy, air force), a Congress/parlimant, the Hiearchy (the ruling class), then the King (elected head if state). Essentially, I am trying to create a near medieval society with a modern touch.
$endgroup$
– Noah
40 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
One important aspect of Feudalism, and why it came about in the first place, that is often overlooked from a modern viewpoint is that Feudalism is a two way social structure:
Those who are at the top and supported by those below them aren't originally up there looking out for purely their own self interest, but rather their role in society was to be that of protector and manager.
Lower classes swear loyalty to an upper class not because they were lowly dirt dwelling scum who got nothing out of it, but rather they swear loyalty in exchange for protection, peace, and organization.
"I work this land, give you part of my yearly labour, and otherwise support you, and you and all your buddies promise to help me live in peace and good health, and keep those far off foreigners from killing all the men and running off with the gold and women..." ["And maybe I'll help you go to those foreign lands to take their stuff..."]
(Consider this social construct to the modern "I promise to work for your company, and you promise to lay me off whenever you think that might help you buy a bigger house/yacht/jet/whatever." - Humanity is weird.)
So you have multiple ways to structure things:
- Do the lords and protectors get elected?
- Are there multiple layers of government, based on social class, with elected elements? [In human history we have any number of examples advisers elected to government representing various class levels.]
- A mix and match of elected/hereditary/religious titles?
At its heart, a democratic-feudal structure is no less stable than a democratic "Vote for me so I can plunder the nation for my four year term for my own/my friend's/family's benefit" politics we see today.
$endgroup$
One important aspect of Feudalism, and why it came about in the first place, that is often overlooked from a modern viewpoint is that Feudalism is a two way social structure:
Those who are at the top and supported by those below them aren't originally up there looking out for purely their own self interest, but rather their role in society was to be that of protector and manager.
Lower classes swear loyalty to an upper class not because they were lowly dirt dwelling scum who got nothing out of it, but rather they swear loyalty in exchange for protection, peace, and organization.
"I work this land, give you part of my yearly labour, and otherwise support you, and you and all your buddies promise to help me live in peace and good health, and keep those far off foreigners from killing all the men and running off with the gold and women..." ["And maybe I'll help you go to those foreign lands to take their stuff..."]
(Consider this social construct to the modern "I promise to work for your company, and you promise to lay me off whenever you think that might help you buy a bigger house/yacht/jet/whatever." - Humanity is weird.)
So you have multiple ways to structure things:
- Do the lords and protectors get elected?
- Are there multiple layers of government, based on social class, with elected elements? [In human history we have any number of examples advisers elected to government representing various class levels.]
- A mix and match of elected/hereditary/religious titles?
At its heart, a democratic-feudal structure is no less stable than a democratic "Vote for me so I can plunder the nation for my four year term for my own/my friend's/family's benefit" politics we see today.
answered 56 mins ago
TheLucklessTheLuckless
61615
61615
$begingroup$
Yes, I wanted the Lords and Kings to be elected by either the peasants or the class they are in. Preferably the former. The government can be described as military orders loyal to the government (army, navy, air force), a Congress/parlimant, the Hiearchy (the ruling class), then the King (elected head if state). Essentially, I am trying to create a near medieval society with a modern touch.
$endgroup$
– Noah
40 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, I wanted the Lords and Kings to be elected by either the peasants or the class they are in. Preferably the former. The government can be described as military orders loyal to the government (army, navy, air force), a Congress/parlimant, the Hiearchy (the ruling class), then the King (elected head if state). Essentially, I am trying to create a near medieval society with a modern touch.
$endgroup$
– Noah
40 mins ago
$begingroup$
Yes, I wanted the Lords and Kings to be elected by either the peasants or the class they are in. Preferably the former. The government can be described as military orders loyal to the government (army, navy, air force), a Congress/parlimant, the Hiearchy (the ruling class), then the King (elected head if state). Essentially, I am trying to create a near medieval society with a modern touch.
$endgroup$
– Noah
40 mins ago
$begingroup$
Yes, I wanted the Lords and Kings to be elected by either the peasants or the class they are in. Preferably the former. The government can be described as military orders loyal to the government (army, navy, air force), a Congress/parlimant, the Hiearchy (the ruling class), then the King (elected head if state). Essentially, I am trying to create a near medieval society with a modern touch.
$endgroup$
– Noah
40 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Define feudalism
When you say "feudal," what do you actually mean?
Feudalism is defined by Brittanica as
the social, economic, and political conditions in western Europe
during the early Middle Ages, the long stretch of time between the 5th
and 12th centuries.
There were basically no democratic systems that existed during that time period, and limited republican systems, so by a strict definition of feudalism, the answer is a clear "No". Since there were no democratic polities that existed in Western Europe in the 5th to 12th centuries, democratic-feudalism is an oxymoron.
Do you want "feudalism" or a class stratified society with voting?
If you want the latter, then there are plenty of examples to go around.
- In the strict medieval period of Western Europe, though mostly later than the 12th century, the Venetian Republic operated with limited male suffrage, as did several other city-states of Italy, such as Florence.
- A less republican Late Medieval variant was the Golden Liberty of Poland, where only the nobles got to vote. This process proceeded somewhat slowly, but a landmark was the 1505 Nihil Novi an act forbidding the King from passing laws without the consent of the Sejm.
- The paragon of a democratic yet class-based society would be England. Democracy developed slowly from the Magna Carta. By the time of the English Civil War (1640s) and Glorious Revolution (1688), the authority of Parliament, even over the King, was well established. The English Bill of Rights of 1689 established free elections to the House of Commons. The electorate was reasonably open for most of the later Middle Ages. But, an 1432 law established eligibility as landowners who held more property worth 40 shillings of rent. While this did not de jure restrict women from voting, in practice custom forbade it.
But, note, universal male suffrage did not appear until the French revolution in 1792. The first country with permanent universal male suffrage was Greece in 1844; universal suffrage was first in New Zealand in 1893 (though some territories and states, like Wyoming, had it as far back as 1869). Without a revolutionary era as happened at the end of the 18th century on actual Earth, it is unlikely that suffrage would be universal, or ever extended to all men without property.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is it possible where Lords and Kings can be elected into a position by his subjects or own class? I say feudalism where we have Kings, Lords and the lower class aka peasants. But it's more of a modern take with democratic elections and representation of the lower class. Doesn't mean they have power over the government but they do have leverage over the officials. If the peasants do not like then, they might as well expect a revolution.
$endgroup$
– Noah
45 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Define feudalism
When you say "feudal," what do you actually mean?
Feudalism is defined by Brittanica as
the social, economic, and political conditions in western Europe
during the early Middle Ages, the long stretch of time between the 5th
and 12th centuries.
There were basically no democratic systems that existed during that time period, and limited republican systems, so by a strict definition of feudalism, the answer is a clear "No". Since there were no democratic polities that existed in Western Europe in the 5th to 12th centuries, democratic-feudalism is an oxymoron.
Do you want "feudalism" or a class stratified society with voting?
If you want the latter, then there are plenty of examples to go around.
- In the strict medieval period of Western Europe, though mostly later than the 12th century, the Venetian Republic operated with limited male suffrage, as did several other city-states of Italy, such as Florence.
- A less republican Late Medieval variant was the Golden Liberty of Poland, where only the nobles got to vote. This process proceeded somewhat slowly, but a landmark was the 1505 Nihil Novi an act forbidding the King from passing laws without the consent of the Sejm.
- The paragon of a democratic yet class-based society would be England. Democracy developed slowly from the Magna Carta. By the time of the English Civil War (1640s) and Glorious Revolution (1688), the authority of Parliament, even over the King, was well established. The English Bill of Rights of 1689 established free elections to the House of Commons. The electorate was reasonably open for most of the later Middle Ages. But, an 1432 law established eligibility as landowners who held more property worth 40 shillings of rent. While this did not de jure restrict women from voting, in practice custom forbade it.
But, note, universal male suffrage did not appear until the French revolution in 1792. The first country with permanent universal male suffrage was Greece in 1844; universal suffrage was first in New Zealand in 1893 (though some territories and states, like Wyoming, had it as far back as 1869). Without a revolutionary era as happened at the end of the 18th century on actual Earth, it is unlikely that suffrage would be universal, or ever extended to all men without property.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is it possible where Lords and Kings can be elected into a position by his subjects or own class? I say feudalism where we have Kings, Lords and the lower class aka peasants. But it's more of a modern take with democratic elections and representation of the lower class. Doesn't mean they have power over the government but they do have leverage over the officials. If the peasants do not like then, they might as well expect a revolution.
$endgroup$
– Noah
45 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Define feudalism
When you say "feudal," what do you actually mean?
Feudalism is defined by Brittanica as
the social, economic, and political conditions in western Europe
during the early Middle Ages, the long stretch of time between the 5th
and 12th centuries.
There were basically no democratic systems that existed during that time period, and limited republican systems, so by a strict definition of feudalism, the answer is a clear "No". Since there were no democratic polities that existed in Western Europe in the 5th to 12th centuries, democratic-feudalism is an oxymoron.
Do you want "feudalism" or a class stratified society with voting?
If you want the latter, then there are plenty of examples to go around.
- In the strict medieval period of Western Europe, though mostly later than the 12th century, the Venetian Republic operated with limited male suffrage, as did several other city-states of Italy, such as Florence.
- A less republican Late Medieval variant was the Golden Liberty of Poland, where only the nobles got to vote. This process proceeded somewhat slowly, but a landmark was the 1505 Nihil Novi an act forbidding the King from passing laws without the consent of the Sejm.
- The paragon of a democratic yet class-based society would be England. Democracy developed slowly from the Magna Carta. By the time of the English Civil War (1640s) and Glorious Revolution (1688), the authority of Parliament, even over the King, was well established. The English Bill of Rights of 1689 established free elections to the House of Commons. The electorate was reasonably open for most of the later Middle Ages. But, an 1432 law established eligibility as landowners who held more property worth 40 shillings of rent. While this did not de jure restrict women from voting, in practice custom forbade it.
But, note, universal male suffrage did not appear until the French revolution in 1792. The first country with permanent universal male suffrage was Greece in 1844; universal suffrage was first in New Zealand in 1893 (though some territories and states, like Wyoming, had it as far back as 1869). Without a revolutionary era as happened at the end of the 18th century on actual Earth, it is unlikely that suffrage would be universal, or ever extended to all men without property.
$endgroup$
Define feudalism
When you say "feudal," what do you actually mean?
Feudalism is defined by Brittanica as
the social, economic, and political conditions in western Europe
during the early Middle Ages, the long stretch of time between the 5th
and 12th centuries.
There were basically no democratic systems that existed during that time period, and limited republican systems, so by a strict definition of feudalism, the answer is a clear "No". Since there were no democratic polities that existed in Western Europe in the 5th to 12th centuries, democratic-feudalism is an oxymoron.
Do you want "feudalism" or a class stratified society with voting?
If you want the latter, then there are plenty of examples to go around.
- In the strict medieval period of Western Europe, though mostly later than the 12th century, the Venetian Republic operated with limited male suffrage, as did several other city-states of Italy, such as Florence.
- A less republican Late Medieval variant was the Golden Liberty of Poland, where only the nobles got to vote. This process proceeded somewhat slowly, but a landmark was the 1505 Nihil Novi an act forbidding the King from passing laws without the consent of the Sejm.
- The paragon of a democratic yet class-based society would be England. Democracy developed slowly from the Magna Carta. By the time of the English Civil War (1640s) and Glorious Revolution (1688), the authority of Parliament, even over the King, was well established. The English Bill of Rights of 1689 established free elections to the House of Commons. The electorate was reasonably open for most of the later Middle Ages. But, an 1432 law established eligibility as landowners who held more property worth 40 shillings of rent. While this did not de jure restrict women from voting, in practice custom forbade it.
But, note, universal male suffrage did not appear until the French revolution in 1792. The first country with permanent universal male suffrage was Greece in 1844; universal suffrage was first in New Zealand in 1893 (though some territories and states, like Wyoming, had it as far back as 1869). Without a revolutionary era as happened at the end of the 18th century on actual Earth, it is unlikely that suffrage would be universal, or ever extended to all men without property.
edited 40 mins ago
answered 51 mins ago
kingledionkingledion
74.5k26246436
74.5k26246436
$begingroup$
Is it possible where Lords and Kings can be elected into a position by his subjects or own class? I say feudalism where we have Kings, Lords and the lower class aka peasants. But it's more of a modern take with democratic elections and representation of the lower class. Doesn't mean they have power over the government but they do have leverage over the officials. If the peasants do not like then, they might as well expect a revolution.
$endgroup$
– Noah
45 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is it possible where Lords and Kings can be elected into a position by his subjects or own class? I say feudalism where we have Kings, Lords and the lower class aka peasants. But it's more of a modern take with democratic elections and representation of the lower class. Doesn't mean they have power over the government but they do have leverage over the officials. If the peasants do not like then, they might as well expect a revolution.
$endgroup$
– Noah
45 mins ago
$begingroup$
Is it possible where Lords and Kings can be elected into a position by his subjects or own class? I say feudalism where we have Kings, Lords and the lower class aka peasants. But it's more of a modern take with democratic elections and representation of the lower class. Doesn't mean they have power over the government but they do have leverage over the officials. If the peasants do not like then, they might as well expect a revolution.
$endgroup$
– Noah
45 mins ago
$begingroup$
Is it possible where Lords and Kings can be elected into a position by his subjects or own class? I say feudalism where we have Kings, Lords and the lower class aka peasants. But it's more of a modern take with democratic elections and representation of the lower class. Doesn't mean they have power over the government but they do have leverage over the officials. If the peasants do not like then, they might as well expect a revolution.
$endgroup$
– Noah
45 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Feudalism has three main parts, lords, lands, and vassals. The lords own the lands and lords owe their loyalty to other lords supplying mutual military and economic support. The peasantry are tied to the land. Nothing says the lords can't be elected by the peasants they rule. Involving complex capitalism would make things a little more complex. A corporation might fit in with the lords, owning land and the workers on it while pledging loyalty to a lord or other corporation.
A strict social hierarchy is not necessarily a requirement of feudalism though.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Feudalism has three main parts, lords, lands, and vassals. The lords own the lands and lords owe their loyalty to other lords supplying mutual military and economic support. The peasantry are tied to the land. Nothing says the lords can't be elected by the peasants they rule. Involving complex capitalism would make things a little more complex. A corporation might fit in with the lords, owning land and the workers on it while pledging loyalty to a lord or other corporation.
A strict social hierarchy is not necessarily a requirement of feudalism though.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Feudalism has three main parts, lords, lands, and vassals. The lords own the lands and lords owe their loyalty to other lords supplying mutual military and economic support. The peasantry are tied to the land. Nothing says the lords can't be elected by the peasants they rule. Involving complex capitalism would make things a little more complex. A corporation might fit in with the lords, owning land and the workers on it while pledging loyalty to a lord or other corporation.
A strict social hierarchy is not necessarily a requirement of feudalism though.
$endgroup$
Feudalism has three main parts, lords, lands, and vassals. The lords own the lands and lords owe their loyalty to other lords supplying mutual military and economic support. The peasantry are tied to the land. Nothing says the lords can't be elected by the peasants they rule. Involving complex capitalism would make things a little more complex. A corporation might fit in with the lords, owning land and the workers on it while pledging loyalty to a lord or other corporation.
A strict social hierarchy is not necessarily a requirement of feudalism though.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 1 hour ago
GiruŠatukuGiruŠatuku
11218
11218
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
What you are describing seems to be more of a oligarchy and not a feudal society.
$endgroup$
– Sebastian
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
A cynical person might suggest that societies only seem stable, and most stay that way due to lucky circumstances...
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Anyway, I don't really have enough to form a useful answer, but you might consider a society that has a "voting class" to be a step towards your theoretical society. In the limit, you get something like the prince-electors.
$endgroup$
– Starfish Prime
1 hour ago