How to keep the anonymity of people attending a regular event taking place at the same location everytime?
$begingroup$
In my setting, a handful of characters have to attend a daily event (such as classes). They do so anonymously, as attending this event could endanger their civilian life if the wrong people were to discover their identities.
Continuing with the example of classes, this event happens always at the same place, at the same time. On site, people are masked and use names different from their own. The location is adequately secured; the risk of intrusion is low. Thus, during the event, their identity is mostly safe.
However, following one attendee before or after said event could lead someone to this person's home, endangering their anonymity.
How could a group of people conceal their daily trip to a location with a predictable starting and ending time?
- The technological level is roughly the same as our own (near future).
- These people aren't criminal (though it could be a case where this question applies).
- People interested in their identities would work alone or in a small group, no larger than the attendees.
- People tracking the attendees can't do it openly, as it would ruin the value of the information.
- Attendees live in a big city, and their method of transportation is up to the answerer (public or private transports).
- Facilities for the event may include specifically designed installations (such as mazes, secret doors/access).
- Event hosts have access to moderately-sized human resources to ensure anonymity.
reality-check near-future secret-society security
edited 2 hours ago
Renan
47.3k12110242
asked 4 hours ago
NyakouaiNyakouai
1486
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In my setting, a handful of characters have to attend a daily event (such as classes). They do so anonymously, as attending this event could endanger their civilian life if the wrong people were to discover their identities.
Continuing with the example of classes, this event happens always at the same place, at the same time. On site, people are masked and use names different from their own. The location is adequately secured; the risk of intrusion is low. Thus, during the event, their identity is mostly safe.
However, following one attendee before or after said event could lead someone to this person's home, endangering their anonymity.
How could a group of people conceal their daily trip to a location with a predictable starting and ending time?
- The technological level is roughly the same as our own (near future).
- These people aren't criminal (though it could be a case where this question applies).
- People interested in their identities would work alone or in a small group, no larger than the attendees.
- People tracking the attendees can't do it openly, as it would ruin the value of the information.
- Attendees live in a big city, and their method of transportation is up to the answerer (public or private transports).
- Facilities for the event may include specifically designed installations (such as mazes, secret doors/access).
- Event hosts have access to moderately-sized human resources to ensure anonymity.
reality-check near-future secret-society security
edited 2 hours ago
Renan
47.3k12110242
asked 4 hours ago
NyakouaiNyakouai
1486
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I don't really see an issue with this question as such, but please note that basically anything they do could be circumvented or doesn't shield them perfectly. There is no perfect security. They might be able to eliminate known security issues, but they will never be defended against any possible attack. Yes, it's perfectly in line with what you see usually on this website, but if I were you, and I just want to point that out nicely, I would be a lot more specific with what you want to prevent exactly and what would be a tolerable risk
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see your point and thank you for your input. I do see the problem, as I thought quite a bit about the issue and see no foul-proof way to do it. Which is the reason why I came to ask the question here. But I'm having a hard time defining or precising what you're asking. First, the hosts want to ensure attendees privacy during the event, trips included (as said in the question - but please do tell if it isn't clear enough, as english isn't my first language). Second, tolerable risk... I'm at loss here. Could you provide me an example of how you would express a tolerable risk in this situation?
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"This event happens always at the same place, at the same time." This is extremely bad tradecraft. Your chacaters deserve to be unmasked.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP This is the core of the problem, given that I'm asking for the particular case where the meeting can not be held elsewhere. I wanted to use work as example, but a lot of work can be done in no particular place at all. This time, the content of the event require fixed facilities. Hence my difficulty to find enough measures to shake off any trackers/observers. So far, the answers are quite helpful.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In my setting, a handful of characters have to attend a daily event (such as classes). They do so anonymously, as attending this event could endanger their civilian life if the wrong people were to discover their identities.
Continuing with the example of classes, this event happens always at the same place, at the same time. On site, people are masked and use names different from their own. The location is adequately secured; the risk of intrusion is low. Thus, during the event, their identity is mostly safe.
However, following one attendee before or after said event could lead someone to this person's home, endangering their anonymity.
How could a group of people conceal their daily trip to a location with a predictable starting and ending time?
- The technological level is roughly the same as our own (near future).
- These people aren't criminal (though it could be a case where this question applies).
- People interested in their identities would work alone or in a small group, no larger than the attendees.
- People tracking the attendees can't do it openly, as it would ruin the value of the information.
- Attendees live in a big city, and their method of transportation is up to the answerer (public or private transports).
- Facilities for the event may include specifically designed installations (such as mazes, secret doors/access).
- Event hosts have access to moderately-sized human resources to ensure anonymity.
reality-check near-future secret-society security
edited 2 hours ago
Renan
47.3k12110242
asked 4 hours ago
NyakouaiNyakouai
1486
$endgroup$
In my setting, a handful of characters have to attend a daily event (such as classes). They do so anonymously, as attending this event could endanger their civilian life if the wrong people were to discover their identities.
Continuing with the example of classes, this event happens always at the same place, at the same time. On site, people are masked and use names different from their own. The location is adequately secured; the risk of intrusion is low. Thus, during the event, their identity is mostly safe.
However, following one attendee before or after said event could lead someone to this person's home, endangering their anonymity.
How could a group of people conceal their daily trip to a location with a predictable starting and ending time?
- The technological level is roughly the same as our own (near future).
- These people aren't criminal (though it could be a case where this question applies).
- People interested in their identities would work alone or in a small group, no larger than the attendees.
- People tracking the attendees can't do it openly, as it would ruin the value of the information.
- Attendees live in a big city, and their method of transportation is up to the answerer (public or private transports).
- Facilities for the event may include specifically designed installations (such as mazes, secret doors/access).
- Event hosts have access to moderately-sized human resources to ensure anonymity.
reality-check near-future secret-society security
reality-check near-future secret-society security
edited 2 hours ago
Renan
47.3k12110242
asked 4 hours ago
NyakouaiNyakouai
1486
edited 2 hours ago
Renan
47.3k12110242
asked 4 hours ago
NyakouaiNyakouai
1486
edited 2 hours ago
Renan
47.3k12110242
edited 2 hours ago
Renan
47.3k12110242
edited 2 hours ago
Renan
47.3k12110242
47.3k12110242
asked 4 hours ago
NyakouaiNyakouai
1486
asked 4 hours ago
NyakouaiNyakouai
1486
asked 4 hours ago
NyakouaiNyakouai
1486
1486
$begingroup$
I don't really see an issue with this question as such, but please note that basically anything they do could be circumvented or doesn't shield them perfectly. There is no perfect security. They might be able to eliminate known security issues, but they will never be defended against any possible attack. Yes, it's perfectly in line with what you see usually on this website, but if I were you, and I just want to point that out nicely, I would be a lot more specific with what you want to prevent exactly and what would be a tolerable risk
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see your point and thank you for your input. I do see the problem, as I thought quite a bit about the issue and see no foul-proof way to do it. Which is the reason why I came to ask the question here. But I'm having a hard time defining or precising what you're asking. First, the hosts want to ensure attendees privacy during the event, trips included (as said in the question - but please do tell if it isn't clear enough, as english isn't my first language). Second, tolerable risk... I'm at loss here. Could you provide me an example of how you would express a tolerable risk in this situation?
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"This event happens always at the same place, at the same time." This is extremely bad tradecraft. Your chacaters deserve to be unmasked.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP This is the core of the problem, given that I'm asking for the particular case where the meeting can not be held elsewhere. I wanted to use work as example, but a lot of work can be done in no particular place at all. This time, the content of the event require fixed facilities. Hence my difficulty to find enough measures to shake off any trackers/observers. So far, the answers are quite helpful.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't really see an issue with this question as such, but please note that basically anything they do could be circumvented or doesn't shield them perfectly. There is no perfect security. They might be able to eliminate known security issues, but they will never be defended against any possible attack. Yes, it's perfectly in line with what you see usually on this website, but if I were you, and I just want to point that out nicely, I would be a lot more specific with what you want to prevent exactly and what would be a tolerable risk
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see your point and thank you for your input. I do see the problem, as I thought quite a bit about the issue and see no foul-proof way to do it. Which is the reason why I came to ask the question here. But I'm having a hard time defining or precising what you're asking. First, the hosts want to ensure attendees privacy during the event, trips included (as said in the question - but please do tell if it isn't clear enough, as english isn't my first language). Second, tolerable risk... I'm at loss here. Could you provide me an example of how you would express a tolerable risk in this situation?
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"This event happens always at the same place, at the same time." This is extremely bad tradecraft. Your chacaters deserve to be unmasked.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP This is the core of the problem, given that I'm asking for the particular case where the meeting can not be held elsewhere. I wanted to use work as example, but a lot of work can be done in no particular place at all. This time, the content of the event require fixed facilities. Hence my difficulty to find enough measures to shake off any trackers/observers. So far, the answers are quite helpful.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
I don't really see an issue with this question as such, but please note that basically anything they do could be circumvented or doesn't shield them perfectly. There is no perfect security. They might be able to eliminate known security issues, but they will never be defended against any possible attack. Yes, it's perfectly in line with what you see usually on this website, but if I were you, and I just want to point that out nicely, I would be a lot more specific with what you want to prevent exactly and what would be a tolerable risk
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I don't really see an issue with this question as such, but please note that basically anything they do could be circumvented or doesn't shield them perfectly. There is no perfect security. They might be able to eliminate known security issues, but they will never be defended against any possible attack. Yes, it's perfectly in line with what you see usually on this website, but if I were you, and I just want to point that out nicely, I would be a lot more specific with what you want to prevent exactly and what would be a tolerable risk
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see your point and thank you for your input. I do see the problem, as I thought quite a bit about the issue and see no foul-proof way to do it. Which is the reason why I came to ask the question here. But I'm having a hard time defining or precising what you're asking. First, the hosts want to ensure attendees privacy during the event, trips included (as said in the question - but please do tell if it isn't clear enough, as english isn't my first language). Second, tolerable risk... I'm at loss here. Could you provide me an example of how you would express a tolerable risk in this situation?
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see your point and thank you for your input. I do see the problem, as I thought quite a bit about the issue and see no foul-proof way to do it. Which is the reason why I came to ask the question here. But I'm having a hard time defining or precising what you're asking. First, the hosts want to ensure attendees privacy during the event, trips included (as said in the question - but please do tell if it isn't clear enough, as english isn't my first language). Second, tolerable risk... I'm at loss here. Could you provide me an example of how you would express a tolerable risk in this situation?
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"This event happens always at the same place, at the same time." This is extremely bad tradecraft. Your chacaters deserve to be unmasked.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
"This event happens always at the same place, at the same time." This is extremely bad tradecraft. Your chacaters deserve to be unmasked.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP This is the core of the problem, given that I'm asking for the particular case where the meeting can not be held elsewhere. I wanted to use work as example, but a lot of work can be done in no particular place at all. This time, the content of the event require fixed facilities. Hence my difficulty to find enough measures to shake off any trackers/observers. So far, the answers are quite helpful.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP This is the core of the problem, given that I'm asking for the particular case where the meeting can not be held elsewhere. I wanted to use work as example, but a lot of work can be done in no particular place at all. This time, the content of the event require fixed facilities. Hence my difficulty to find enough measures to shake off any trackers/observers. So far, the answers are quite helpful.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
With this setup, someone determined to discover the identity of a participant, is likely to succeed. There are too many places where a tracker can get a clue.
The tracker needs to know:
- That this meeting is something nefarious.
- When and where the class is. Varying the timing and location will help a lot with security. A daily gathering of people without an explanation is suspicious. All the more so if it's the same people each day. A million times more if they're all masked as they enter and leave!
- How to follow someone. This means the skill to keep track of them without being noticed.
Some ways to improve security:
Find a way so that the public never sees the attendee masked but the other attendees never see each other unmasked. I would place the meeting in a private room in a very large public place where the group's leaders control security for the entire building.
Everyone goes down a hallway (there are multiple hallways and very few people are in any particular one at any given time) with several doors to bathrooms along it. Each bathroom is single use and entirely private.
A regular person enters the bathroom, uses the facilities, and exits through the back door. The back door goes to another hallway which takes this person to their room. Since everyone must go through a bathroom to get to the hall that goes to their room, entering a bathroom doesn't single one out for more scrutiny.
An attendee enters the bathroom, changes her/his clothes, and puts on a mask, then uses the backdoor to eventually get to the room. It is possible for a regular person to see an attendee in a mask and wonder what's up, but they'll never see what they looked like when entering the bathroom.
The bathroom has a special internally-controlled lock. It locks both doors at once when someone enters. When that person wants to leave, they can do so using a normal door handle that stays locked from the outside but opens from the inside. A random period of time later (1-3 minutes), both doors unlock. Someone waiting outside the door where the last person entered has no idea that the "occupied" room is actually vacant.
As the attendees make their way to their room, they have to go through a few more doors. This alerts them to being followed. A security guard could turn away anyone not in a mask ("sorry ma'am, I think you want that door over there") or only admit people with the right passcode or jewelry or whatever you want to use.
To leave the building, you must go through a similar process. You go down a set of hallways and eventually reach one with bathrooms. Enter the bathroom, change, and exit through the other door. The back doors of the bathrooms go to different hallways so you can't follow someone that way. If you try to follow using the same bathroom, you won't get there in time.
Get a cover. Maybe a tracker can never discover which room someone goes to. Maybe they'll never know which group of 30 people arriving and leaving the same time every day are the ones doing something "wrong" because there are 300 other people doing the exact same thing. But each individual doesn't want to arouse suspicious at home or work or among people they know.
Pretending that it's classes for something allowed in the society, would keep a lot of potential trackers from noticing. Have all the equipment and materials for the fake class. Teach a bit each day so the attendees can prove they are learning something legitimate. Assign homework.
Change the code regularly. Worst case scenario is that someone figures out how to infiltrate the meeting. This is not hard since everyone's masked. They just need to know how to get there. Each meeting ends with the new codes for tomorrow. Perhaps combine these with a special (but disguised) piece of jewelry. Someone might steal the ring, or overhear the code, but surely not both.
answered 3 hours ago
CynCyn
6,20411035
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OK, I am assuming that it is not acceptable for the 'hunters' to abduct the participants during their journey, otherwise it is almost impossible for the attendees to remain anonymous.
Arriving at the venue seems reasonably simple - assuming the city has a lot of suitable routes - maybe a place like London with underground rail, buses, trains, taxis, bike paths rather than a small town or one poor in public transport. The attendees leave home wearing a disguise - false beards, dark-glasses, wigs, prosthetic noses etc - sufficient to cloak their normal identity, but not so outlandish that they will be noticed as 'odd'. Now they make a series of random journeys - preferably on foot or bicycle and public transport etc - anything that doesn't have an identifiable registration number that could be used to identify them. After a number of such journeys, they finish with a trip to the venue. The hunters can see them arrive each day, but can't identify them, and as they always arrive by a different route they can't use that information to trace their path back to home.
Getting home is trickier. The hunters can see them leave so could follow them all the way home unless they can be shaken off. Some tactics that might help would be:
- Anonymously hire a number of people to leave simultaneously dressed in identical disguises.
- All leave at once in a large vehicle that can hold them all (like a
bus) - travel to a random destination and then disperse (the
followers can chase their vehicle, but unless they also have a bus
only a limited number of hunters can get to the dispersal zone so
they will be easier to shake) - Choose a venue with lots of departure
points and lots of foot traffic (i.e. hold the meeting in a busy
transport hub building) so it is easier to mingle with others. - Hire third parties to make it hard for the hunters to follow - blocking
roads, accusing hunters of being pick-pockets, driving away in
blacked-out vans that may (or may not) have a participant inside. - Spy-craft - If the hunters have similar numbers as the attendees then
there would only be one or two trying to follow each home, so
switching transport, ducking through back doors, getting on or off
subway trains at the last second, switching disguises in public
bathrooms etc might all help.
Of course, in the long run, if the attendees turn up every day - sooner or later someone will get identified. A disaster for them, but OK for other attendees as long as they are anonymous to each other.
answered 2 hours ago
PenguinoPenguino
96618
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Individuals at this event are indistinguishable from each other.
source
Disguises are not merely to conceal the identity of the wearer. They are to make every individual in the facility identical to every other. Gender, build, age and everything else is concealed. Here depicted are people in Ku Klux Klan robes; burkhas might be another option, or hazmat suits.
The ideal solution to pollution is dilution. If there were many persons attending this event (in their regalia) who were of no interest to potential trackers that would be ideal for the members who are of interest. A tracker would have to pick a person at random and follow him/her home. There would be no way to know the person you are following is not the same person you followed last time until you got to their home. You would waste a lot of time.
answered 41 mins ago
WillkWillk
105k25197442
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3 Answers
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3 Answers
3
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active
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active
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$begingroup$
With this setup, someone determined to discover the identity of a participant, is likely to succeed. There are too many places where a tracker can get a clue.
The tracker needs to know:
- That this meeting is something nefarious.
- When and where the class is. Varying the timing and location will help a lot with security. A daily gathering of people without an explanation is suspicious. All the more so if it's the same people each day. A million times more if they're all masked as they enter and leave!
- How to follow someone. This means the skill to keep track of them without being noticed.
Some ways to improve security:
Find a way so that the public never sees the attendee masked but the other attendees never see each other unmasked. I would place the meeting in a private room in a very large public place where the group's leaders control security for the entire building.
Everyone goes down a hallway (there are multiple hallways and very few people are in any particular one at any given time) with several doors to bathrooms along it. Each bathroom is single use and entirely private.
A regular person enters the bathroom, uses the facilities, and exits through the back door. The back door goes to another hallway which takes this person to their room. Since everyone must go through a bathroom to get to the hall that goes to their room, entering a bathroom doesn't single one out for more scrutiny.
An attendee enters the bathroom, changes her/his clothes, and puts on a mask, then uses the backdoor to eventually get to the room. It is possible for a regular person to see an attendee in a mask and wonder what's up, but they'll never see what they looked like when entering the bathroom.
The bathroom has a special internally-controlled lock. It locks both doors at once when someone enters. When that person wants to leave, they can do so using a normal door handle that stays locked from the outside but opens from the inside. A random period of time later (1-3 minutes), both doors unlock. Someone waiting outside the door where the last person entered has no idea that the "occupied" room is actually vacant.
As the attendees make their way to their room, they have to go through a few more doors. This alerts them to being followed. A security guard could turn away anyone not in a mask ("sorry ma'am, I think you want that door over there") or only admit people with the right passcode or jewelry or whatever you want to use.
To leave the building, you must go through a similar process. You go down a set of hallways and eventually reach one with bathrooms. Enter the bathroom, change, and exit through the other door. The back doors of the bathrooms go to different hallways so you can't follow someone that way. If you try to follow using the same bathroom, you won't get there in time.
Get a cover. Maybe a tracker can never discover which room someone goes to. Maybe they'll never know which group of 30 people arriving and leaving the same time every day are the ones doing something "wrong" because there are 300 other people doing the exact same thing. But each individual doesn't want to arouse suspicious at home or work or among people they know.
Pretending that it's classes for something allowed in the society, would keep a lot of potential trackers from noticing. Have all the equipment and materials for the fake class. Teach a bit each day so the attendees can prove they are learning something legitimate. Assign homework.
Change the code regularly. Worst case scenario is that someone figures out how to infiltrate the meeting. This is not hard since everyone's masked. They just need to know how to get there. Each meeting ends with the new codes for tomorrow. Perhaps combine these with a special (but disguised) piece of jewelry. Someone might steal the ring, or overhear the code, but surely not both.
answered 3 hours ago
CynCyn
6,20411035
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
With this setup, someone determined to discover the identity of a participant, is likely to succeed. There are too many places where a tracker can get a clue.
The tracker needs to know:
- That this meeting is something nefarious.
- When and where the class is. Varying the timing and location will help a lot with security. A daily gathering of people without an explanation is suspicious. All the more so if it's the same people each day. A million times more if they're all masked as they enter and leave!
- How to follow someone. This means the skill to keep track of them without being noticed.
Some ways to improve security:
Find a way so that the public never sees the attendee masked but the other attendees never see each other unmasked. I would place the meeting in a private room in a very large public place where the group's leaders control security for the entire building.
Everyone goes down a hallway (there are multiple hallways and very few people are in any particular one at any given time) with several doors to bathrooms along it. Each bathroom is single use and entirely private.
A regular person enters the bathroom, uses the facilities, and exits through the back door. The back door goes to another hallway which takes this person to their room. Since everyone must go through a bathroom to get to the hall that goes to their room, entering a bathroom doesn't single one out for more scrutiny.
An attendee enters the bathroom, changes her/his clothes, and puts on a mask, then uses the backdoor to eventually get to the room. It is possible for a regular person to see an attendee in a mask and wonder what's up, but they'll never see what they looked like when entering the bathroom.
The bathroom has a special internally-controlled lock. It locks both doors at once when someone enters. When that person wants to leave, they can do so using a normal door handle that stays locked from the outside but opens from the inside. A random period of time later (1-3 minutes), both doors unlock. Someone waiting outside the door where the last person entered has no idea that the "occupied" room is actually vacant.
As the attendees make their way to their room, they have to go through a few more doors. This alerts them to being followed. A security guard could turn away anyone not in a mask ("sorry ma'am, I think you want that door over there") or only admit people with the right passcode or jewelry or whatever you want to use.
To leave the building, you must go through a similar process. You go down a set of hallways and eventually reach one with bathrooms. Enter the bathroom, change, and exit through the other door. The back doors of the bathrooms go to different hallways so you can't follow someone that way. If you try to follow using the same bathroom, you won't get there in time.
Get a cover. Maybe a tracker can never discover which room someone goes to. Maybe they'll never know which group of 30 people arriving and leaving the same time every day are the ones doing something "wrong" because there are 300 other people doing the exact same thing. But each individual doesn't want to arouse suspicious at home or work or among people they know.
Pretending that it's classes for something allowed in the society, would keep a lot of potential trackers from noticing. Have all the equipment and materials for the fake class. Teach a bit each day so the attendees can prove they are learning something legitimate. Assign homework.
Change the code regularly. Worst case scenario is that someone figures out how to infiltrate the meeting. This is not hard since everyone's masked. They just need to know how to get there. Each meeting ends with the new codes for tomorrow. Perhaps combine these with a special (but disguised) piece of jewelry. Someone might steal the ring, or overhear the code, but surely not both.
answered 3 hours ago
CynCyn
6,20411035
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
With this setup, someone determined to discover the identity of a participant, is likely to succeed. There are too many places where a tracker can get a clue.
The tracker needs to know:
- That this meeting is something nefarious.
- When and where the class is. Varying the timing and location will help a lot with security. A daily gathering of people without an explanation is suspicious. All the more so if it's the same people each day. A million times more if they're all masked as they enter and leave!
- How to follow someone. This means the skill to keep track of them without being noticed.
Some ways to improve security:
Find a way so that the public never sees the attendee masked but the other attendees never see each other unmasked. I would place the meeting in a private room in a very large public place where the group's leaders control security for the entire building.
Everyone goes down a hallway (there are multiple hallways and very few people are in any particular one at any given time) with several doors to bathrooms along it. Each bathroom is single use and entirely private.
A regular person enters the bathroom, uses the facilities, and exits through the back door. The back door goes to another hallway which takes this person to their room. Since everyone must go through a bathroom to get to the hall that goes to their room, entering a bathroom doesn't single one out for more scrutiny.
An attendee enters the bathroom, changes her/his clothes, and puts on a mask, then uses the backdoor to eventually get to the room. It is possible for a regular person to see an attendee in a mask and wonder what's up, but they'll never see what they looked like when entering the bathroom.
The bathroom has a special internally-controlled lock. It locks both doors at once when someone enters. When that person wants to leave, they can do so using a normal door handle that stays locked from the outside but opens from the inside. A random period of time later (1-3 minutes), both doors unlock. Someone waiting outside the door where the last person entered has no idea that the "occupied" room is actually vacant.
As the attendees make their way to their room, they have to go through a few more doors. This alerts them to being followed. A security guard could turn away anyone not in a mask ("sorry ma'am, I think you want that door over there") or only admit people with the right passcode or jewelry or whatever you want to use.
To leave the building, you must go through a similar process. You go down a set of hallways and eventually reach one with bathrooms. Enter the bathroom, change, and exit through the other door. The back doors of the bathrooms go to different hallways so you can't follow someone that way. If you try to follow using the same bathroom, you won't get there in time.
Get a cover. Maybe a tracker can never discover which room someone goes to. Maybe they'll never know which group of 30 people arriving and leaving the same time every day are the ones doing something "wrong" because there are 300 other people doing the exact same thing. But each individual doesn't want to arouse suspicious at home or work or among people they know.
Pretending that it's classes for something allowed in the society, would keep a lot of potential trackers from noticing. Have all the equipment and materials for the fake class. Teach a bit each day so the attendees can prove they are learning something legitimate. Assign homework.
Change the code regularly. Worst case scenario is that someone figures out how to infiltrate the meeting. This is not hard since everyone's masked. They just need to know how to get there. Each meeting ends with the new codes for tomorrow. Perhaps combine these with a special (but disguised) piece of jewelry. Someone might steal the ring, or overhear the code, but surely not both.
answered 3 hours ago
CynCyn
6,20411035
$endgroup$
With this setup, someone determined to discover the identity of a participant, is likely to succeed. There are too many places where a tracker can get a clue.
The tracker needs to know:
- That this meeting is something nefarious.
- When and where the class is. Varying the timing and location will help a lot with security. A daily gathering of people without an explanation is suspicious. All the more so if it's the same people each day. A million times more if they're all masked as they enter and leave!
- How to follow someone. This means the skill to keep track of them without being noticed.
Some ways to improve security:
Find a way so that the public never sees the attendee masked but the other attendees never see each other unmasked. I would place the meeting in a private room in a very large public place where the group's leaders control security for the entire building.
Everyone goes down a hallway (there are multiple hallways and very few people are in any particular one at any given time) with several doors to bathrooms along it. Each bathroom is single use and entirely private.
A regular person enters the bathroom, uses the facilities, and exits through the back door. The back door goes to another hallway which takes this person to their room. Since everyone must go through a bathroom to get to the hall that goes to their room, entering a bathroom doesn't single one out for more scrutiny.
An attendee enters the bathroom, changes her/his clothes, and puts on a mask, then uses the backdoor to eventually get to the room. It is possible for a regular person to see an attendee in a mask and wonder what's up, but they'll never see what they looked like when entering the bathroom.
The bathroom has a special internally-controlled lock. It locks both doors at once when someone enters. When that person wants to leave, they can do so using a normal door handle that stays locked from the outside but opens from the inside. A random period of time later (1-3 minutes), both doors unlock. Someone waiting outside the door where the last person entered has no idea that the "occupied" room is actually vacant.
As the attendees make their way to their room, they have to go through a few more doors. This alerts them to being followed. A security guard could turn away anyone not in a mask ("sorry ma'am, I think you want that door over there") or only admit people with the right passcode or jewelry or whatever you want to use.
To leave the building, you must go through a similar process. You go down a set of hallways and eventually reach one with bathrooms. Enter the bathroom, change, and exit through the other door. The back doors of the bathrooms go to different hallways so you can't follow someone that way. If you try to follow using the same bathroom, you won't get there in time.
Get a cover. Maybe a tracker can never discover which room someone goes to. Maybe they'll never know which group of 30 people arriving and leaving the same time every day are the ones doing something "wrong" because there are 300 other people doing the exact same thing. But each individual doesn't want to arouse suspicious at home or work or among people they know.
Pretending that it's classes for something allowed in the society, would keep a lot of potential trackers from noticing. Have all the equipment and materials for the fake class. Teach a bit each day so the attendees can prove they are learning something legitimate. Assign homework.
Change the code regularly. Worst case scenario is that someone figures out how to infiltrate the meeting. This is not hard since everyone's masked. They just need to know how to get there. Each meeting ends with the new codes for tomorrow. Perhaps combine these with a special (but disguised) piece of jewelry. Someone might steal the ring, or overhear the code, but surely not both.
answered 3 hours ago
CynCyn
6,20411035
answered 3 hours ago
CynCyn
6,20411035
answered 3 hours ago
CynCyn
6,20411035
answered 3 hours ago
CynCyn
6,20411035
6,20411035
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
OK, I am assuming that it is not acceptable for the 'hunters' to abduct the participants during their journey, otherwise it is almost impossible for the attendees to remain anonymous.
Arriving at the venue seems reasonably simple - assuming the city has a lot of suitable routes - maybe a place like London with underground rail, buses, trains, taxis, bike paths rather than a small town or one poor in public transport. The attendees leave home wearing a disguise - false beards, dark-glasses, wigs, prosthetic noses etc - sufficient to cloak their normal identity, but not so outlandish that they will be noticed as 'odd'. Now they make a series of random journeys - preferably on foot or bicycle and public transport etc - anything that doesn't have an identifiable registration number that could be used to identify them. After a number of such journeys, they finish with a trip to the venue. The hunters can see them arrive each day, but can't identify them, and as they always arrive by a different route they can't use that information to trace their path back to home.
Getting home is trickier. The hunters can see them leave so could follow them all the way home unless they can be shaken off. Some tactics that might help would be:
- Anonymously hire a number of people to leave simultaneously dressed in identical disguises.
- All leave at once in a large vehicle that can hold them all (like a
bus) - travel to a random destination and then disperse (the
followers can chase their vehicle, but unless they also have a bus
only a limited number of hunters can get to the dispersal zone so
they will be easier to shake) - Choose a venue with lots of departure
points and lots of foot traffic (i.e. hold the meeting in a busy
transport hub building) so it is easier to mingle with others. - Hire third parties to make it hard for the hunters to follow - blocking
roads, accusing hunters of being pick-pockets, driving away in
blacked-out vans that may (or may not) have a participant inside. - Spy-craft - If the hunters have similar numbers as the attendees then
there would only be one or two trying to follow each home, so
switching transport, ducking through back doors, getting on or off
subway trains at the last second, switching disguises in public
bathrooms etc might all help.
Of course, in the long run, if the attendees turn up every day - sooner or later someone will get identified. A disaster for them, but OK for other attendees as long as they are anonymous to each other.
answered 2 hours ago
PenguinoPenguino
96618
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
OK, I am assuming that it is not acceptable for the 'hunters' to abduct the participants during their journey, otherwise it is almost impossible for the attendees to remain anonymous.
Arriving at the venue seems reasonably simple - assuming the city has a lot of suitable routes - maybe a place like London with underground rail, buses, trains, taxis, bike paths rather than a small town or one poor in public transport. The attendees leave home wearing a disguise - false beards, dark-glasses, wigs, prosthetic noses etc - sufficient to cloak their normal identity, but not so outlandish that they will be noticed as 'odd'. Now they make a series of random journeys - preferably on foot or bicycle and public transport etc - anything that doesn't have an identifiable registration number that could be used to identify them. After a number of such journeys, they finish with a trip to the venue. The hunters can see them arrive each day, but can't identify them, and as they always arrive by a different route they can't use that information to trace their path back to home.
Getting home is trickier. The hunters can see them leave so could follow them all the way home unless they can be shaken off. Some tactics that might help would be:
- Anonymously hire a number of people to leave simultaneously dressed in identical disguises.
- All leave at once in a large vehicle that can hold them all (like a
bus) - travel to a random destination and then disperse (the
followers can chase their vehicle, but unless they also have a bus
only a limited number of hunters can get to the dispersal zone so
they will be easier to shake) - Choose a venue with lots of departure
points and lots of foot traffic (i.e. hold the meeting in a busy
transport hub building) so it is easier to mingle with others. - Hire third parties to make it hard for the hunters to follow - blocking
roads, accusing hunters of being pick-pockets, driving away in
blacked-out vans that may (or may not) have a participant inside. - Spy-craft - If the hunters have similar numbers as the attendees then
there would only be one or two trying to follow each home, so
switching transport, ducking through back doors, getting on or off
subway trains at the last second, switching disguises in public
bathrooms etc might all help.
Of course, in the long run, if the attendees turn up every day - sooner or later someone will get identified. A disaster for them, but OK for other attendees as long as they are anonymous to each other.
answered 2 hours ago
PenguinoPenguino
96618
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
OK, I am assuming that it is not acceptable for the 'hunters' to abduct the participants during their journey, otherwise it is almost impossible for the attendees to remain anonymous.
Arriving at the venue seems reasonably simple - assuming the city has a lot of suitable routes - maybe a place like London with underground rail, buses, trains, taxis, bike paths rather than a small town or one poor in public transport. The attendees leave home wearing a disguise - false beards, dark-glasses, wigs, prosthetic noses etc - sufficient to cloak their normal identity, but not so outlandish that they will be noticed as 'odd'. Now they make a series of random journeys - preferably on foot or bicycle and public transport etc - anything that doesn't have an identifiable registration number that could be used to identify them. After a number of such journeys, they finish with a trip to the venue. The hunters can see them arrive each day, but can't identify them, and as they always arrive by a different route they can't use that information to trace their path back to home.
Getting home is trickier. The hunters can see them leave so could follow them all the way home unless they can be shaken off. Some tactics that might help would be:
- Anonymously hire a number of people to leave simultaneously dressed in identical disguises.
- All leave at once in a large vehicle that can hold them all (like a
bus) - travel to a random destination and then disperse (the
followers can chase their vehicle, but unless they also have a bus
only a limited number of hunters can get to the dispersal zone so
they will be easier to shake) - Choose a venue with lots of departure
points and lots of foot traffic (i.e. hold the meeting in a busy
transport hub building) so it is easier to mingle with others. - Hire third parties to make it hard for the hunters to follow - blocking
roads, accusing hunters of being pick-pockets, driving away in
blacked-out vans that may (or may not) have a participant inside. - Spy-craft - If the hunters have similar numbers as the attendees then
there would only be one or two trying to follow each home, so
switching transport, ducking through back doors, getting on or off
subway trains at the last second, switching disguises in public
bathrooms etc might all help.
Of course, in the long run, if the attendees turn up every day - sooner or later someone will get identified. A disaster for them, but OK for other attendees as long as they are anonymous to each other.
answered 2 hours ago
PenguinoPenguino
96618
$endgroup$
OK, I am assuming that it is not acceptable for the 'hunters' to abduct the participants during their journey, otherwise it is almost impossible for the attendees to remain anonymous.
Arriving at the venue seems reasonably simple - assuming the city has a lot of suitable routes - maybe a place like London with underground rail, buses, trains, taxis, bike paths rather than a small town or one poor in public transport. The attendees leave home wearing a disguise - false beards, dark-glasses, wigs, prosthetic noses etc - sufficient to cloak their normal identity, but not so outlandish that they will be noticed as 'odd'. Now they make a series of random journeys - preferably on foot or bicycle and public transport etc - anything that doesn't have an identifiable registration number that could be used to identify them. After a number of such journeys, they finish with a trip to the venue. The hunters can see them arrive each day, but can't identify them, and as they always arrive by a different route they can't use that information to trace their path back to home.
Getting home is trickier. The hunters can see them leave so could follow them all the way home unless they can be shaken off. Some tactics that might help would be:
- Anonymously hire a number of people to leave simultaneously dressed in identical disguises.
- All leave at once in a large vehicle that can hold them all (like a
bus) - travel to a random destination and then disperse (the
followers can chase their vehicle, but unless they also have a bus
only a limited number of hunters can get to the dispersal zone so
they will be easier to shake) - Choose a venue with lots of departure
points and lots of foot traffic (i.e. hold the meeting in a busy
transport hub building) so it is easier to mingle with others. - Hire third parties to make it hard for the hunters to follow - blocking
roads, accusing hunters of being pick-pockets, driving away in
blacked-out vans that may (or may not) have a participant inside. - Spy-craft - If the hunters have similar numbers as the attendees then
there would only be one or two trying to follow each home, so
switching transport, ducking through back doors, getting on or off
subway trains at the last second, switching disguises in public
bathrooms etc might all help.
Of course, in the long run, if the attendees turn up every day - sooner or later someone will get identified. A disaster for them, but OK for other attendees as long as they are anonymous to each other.
answered 2 hours ago
PenguinoPenguino
96618
answered 2 hours ago
PenguinoPenguino
96618
answered 2 hours ago
PenguinoPenguino
96618
answered 2 hours ago
PenguinoPenguino
96618
96618
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Individuals at this event are indistinguishable from each other.
source
Disguises are not merely to conceal the identity of the wearer. They are to make every individual in the facility identical to every other. Gender, build, age and everything else is concealed. Here depicted are people in Ku Klux Klan robes; burkhas might be another option, or hazmat suits.
The ideal solution to pollution is dilution. If there were many persons attending this event (in their regalia) who were of no interest to potential trackers that would be ideal for the members who are of interest. A tracker would have to pick a person at random and follow him/her home. There would be no way to know the person you are following is not the same person you followed last time until you got to their home. You would waste a lot of time.
answered 41 mins ago
WillkWillk
105k25197442
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Individuals at this event are indistinguishable from each other.
source
Disguises are not merely to conceal the identity of the wearer. They are to make every individual in the facility identical to every other. Gender, build, age and everything else is concealed. Here depicted are people in Ku Klux Klan robes; burkhas might be another option, or hazmat suits.
The ideal solution to pollution is dilution. If there were many persons attending this event (in their regalia) who were of no interest to potential trackers that would be ideal for the members who are of interest. A tracker would have to pick a person at random and follow him/her home. There would be no way to know the person you are following is not the same person you followed last time until you got to their home. You would waste a lot of time.
answered 41 mins ago
WillkWillk
105k25197442
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Individuals at this event are indistinguishable from each other.
source
Disguises are not merely to conceal the identity of the wearer. They are to make every individual in the facility identical to every other. Gender, build, age and everything else is concealed. Here depicted are people in Ku Klux Klan robes; burkhas might be another option, or hazmat suits.
The ideal solution to pollution is dilution. If there were many persons attending this event (in their regalia) who were of no interest to potential trackers that would be ideal for the members who are of interest. A tracker would have to pick a person at random and follow him/her home. There would be no way to know the person you are following is not the same person you followed last time until you got to their home. You would waste a lot of time.
answered 41 mins ago
WillkWillk
105k25197442
$endgroup$
Individuals at this event are indistinguishable from each other.
source
Disguises are not merely to conceal the identity of the wearer. They are to make every individual in the facility identical to every other. Gender, build, age and everything else is concealed. Here depicted are people in Ku Klux Klan robes; burkhas might be another option, or hazmat suits.
The ideal solution to pollution is dilution. If there were many persons attending this event (in their regalia) who were of no interest to potential trackers that would be ideal for the members who are of interest. A tracker would have to pick a person at random and follow him/her home. There would be no way to know the person you are following is not the same person you followed last time until you got to their home. You would waste a lot of time.
answered 41 mins ago
WillkWillk
105k25197442
answered 41 mins ago
WillkWillk
105k25197442
answered 41 mins ago
WillkWillk
105k25197442
answered 41 mins ago
WillkWillk
105k25197442
105k25197442
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I don't really see an issue with this question as such, but please note that basically anything they do could be circumvented or doesn't shield them perfectly. There is no perfect security. They might be able to eliminate known security issues, but they will never be defended against any possible attack. Yes, it's perfectly in line with what you see usually on this website, but if I were you, and I just want to point that out nicely, I would be a lot more specific with what you want to prevent exactly and what would be a tolerable risk
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
I see your point and thank you for your input. I do see the problem, as I thought quite a bit about the issue and see no foul-proof way to do it. Which is the reason why I came to ask the question here. But I'm having a hard time defining or precising what you're asking. First, the hosts want to ensure attendees privacy during the event, trips included (as said in the question - but please do tell if it isn't clear enough, as english isn't my first language). Second, tolerable risk... I'm at loss here. Could you provide me an example of how you would express a tolerable risk in this situation?
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
"This event happens always at the same place, at the same time." This is extremely bad tradecraft. Your chacaters deserve to be unmasked.
$endgroup$
– AlexP
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AlexP This is the core of the problem, given that I'm asking for the particular case where the meeting can not be held elsewhere. I wanted to use work as example, but a lot of work can be done in no particular place at all. This time, the content of the event require fixed facilities. Hence my difficulty to find enough measures to shake off any trackers/observers. So far, the answers are quite helpful.
$endgroup$
– Nyakouai
1 hour ago