'plecto, plectere, plexi', -tor/-sor form (agent noun)












3















How would one add the agent noun suffix (normally -tor) to the verb 'plecto' (I weave/twist)? It's been a few years — about 10 — but if I recall correctly, verbs whose stem ends in 't' uses -sor as the agent suffix. This would be 'plectsor', which seems very unwieldy; however, plecttor is certainly not correct. Obviously in English there are verbs whose agent form is irregular, and some which have no such form. Is this the case with this Latin verb? If this is the case, what would be the correct way to form the noun in theory?
Thank you in advance.










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    How would one add the agent noun suffix (normally -tor) to the verb 'plecto' (I weave/twist)? It's been a few years — about 10 — but if I recall correctly, verbs whose stem ends in 't' uses -sor as the agent suffix. This would be 'plectsor', which seems very unwieldy; however, plecttor is certainly not correct. Obviously in English there are verbs whose agent form is irregular, and some which have no such form. Is this the case with this Latin verb? If this is the case, what would be the correct way to form the noun in theory?
    Thank you in advance.










    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Clinton J is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.























      3












      3








      3








      How would one add the agent noun suffix (normally -tor) to the verb 'plecto' (I weave/twist)? It's been a few years — about 10 — but if I recall correctly, verbs whose stem ends in 't' uses -sor as the agent suffix. This would be 'plectsor', which seems very unwieldy; however, plecttor is certainly not correct. Obviously in English there are verbs whose agent form is irregular, and some which have no such form. Is this the case with this Latin verb? If this is the case, what would be the correct way to form the noun in theory?
      Thank you in advance.










      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Clinton J is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.












      How would one add the agent noun suffix (normally -tor) to the verb 'plecto' (I weave/twist)? It's been a few years — about 10 — but if I recall correctly, verbs whose stem ends in 't' uses -sor as the agent suffix. This would be 'plectsor', which seems very unwieldy; however, plecttor is certainly not correct. Obviously in English there are verbs whose agent form is irregular, and some which have no such form. Is this the case with this Latin verb? If this is the case, what would be the correct way to form the noun in theory?
      Thank you in advance.







      verbs morphologia derivation coniugatio






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      Clinton J is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 12 hours ago









      Joonas Ilmavirta

      46.2k1058265




      46.2k1058265






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      asked 12 hours ago









      Clinton JClinton J

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      1162




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          2 Answers
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          active

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          3














          You seem to be missing the four part in the verb's dictionary entry: plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus.
          The agent noun is derived from the perfect participle stem, which for this verb is plex-.
          This stem is obtained by removing -us from the participle listed in most dictionaries.



          To this stem you add -or, so the noun you are after is plexor.
          (This kind of counts as -sor because x=cs.)
          The participle stem tends to be indicated by -t- or -s-.
          One important aspect of using the perfect participle stem is that you have one less thing to memorize.






          share|improve this answer































            3














            Good question! Let's break it down.



            The root of this verb is plect- (notably not plēct- which has a different meaning!). If you look it up in a dictionary you'll see the four parts plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus, which literally mean "I weave, to weave, I wove, woven".



            Now, the suffix is usually written as -tor, but a better way to think of it is -or, without the t. You put it on the supine stem, aka the past participle stem, aka the fourth principle part: this is the last form listed in the dictionary, the one that ends in -us. In this case, it's plexus. Take the -us off and add the -or and you're done, getting plex-or.



            To go a bit more in depth, most verbs use a suffix -t- to make the fourth principle part, but some instead use -s-, especially third conjugation verbs ending in dental consonants. This verb happens to be one of those! The actual reasons for choosing one or the other are unclear, but seem to go back to Proto-Italic or even Proto-Italo-Celtic. Back then, either one could be used, but the speakers generally picked one and stuck with it by the time of Latin.



            So that's where the s comes from, but why don't we see *plectsor? Well, that is indeed what you get when you glue all the pieces together. But the combination ts isn't allowed within Latin words (with the singular exception of etsi which is really two words written together for convenience). So the ts simplifies to s, giving plecsor. Compare the word for "night", in the nominative: noct-s → noc-s → nox.



            Finally, cs in Latin is written as x, as in duc-s → dux. This doesn't actually change anything about the pronunciation, it's just a spelling quirk. So our final result is plexor.






            share|improve this answer


























            • +1 despite my losing the race to answer the question. :) Isn't the choice between t and s the same in the agent noun as in the perfect participle, at least mostly?

              – Joonas Ilmavirta
              11 hours ago











            • @JoonasIlmavirta Good question! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it sounds like you're correct—let me think for a moment and see if I can come up with any counter-examples.

              – Draconis
              10 hours ago











            • @JoonasIlmavirta I'm convinced you're right now! Edited my answer to reflect that. Even if there are some rare exceptions, that's a much more useful way for a learner to think of it.

              – Draconis
              10 hours ago











            • Just to be sure, I asked a follow-up question. I'm not aware of any counterexamples, but I don't know how universal it really is.

              – Joonas Ilmavirta
              4 hours ago











            Your Answer








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            2 Answers
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            2 Answers
            2






            active

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            active

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            active

            oldest

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            3














            You seem to be missing the four part in the verb's dictionary entry: plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus.
            The agent noun is derived from the perfect participle stem, which for this verb is plex-.
            This stem is obtained by removing -us from the participle listed in most dictionaries.



            To this stem you add -or, so the noun you are after is plexor.
            (This kind of counts as -sor because x=cs.)
            The participle stem tends to be indicated by -t- or -s-.
            One important aspect of using the perfect participle stem is that you have one less thing to memorize.






            share|improve this answer




























              3














              You seem to be missing the four part in the verb's dictionary entry: plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus.
              The agent noun is derived from the perfect participle stem, which for this verb is plex-.
              This stem is obtained by removing -us from the participle listed in most dictionaries.



              To this stem you add -or, so the noun you are after is plexor.
              (This kind of counts as -sor because x=cs.)
              The participle stem tends to be indicated by -t- or -s-.
              One important aspect of using the perfect participle stem is that you have one less thing to memorize.






              share|improve this answer


























                3












                3








                3







                You seem to be missing the four part in the verb's dictionary entry: plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus.
                The agent noun is derived from the perfect participle stem, which for this verb is plex-.
                This stem is obtained by removing -us from the participle listed in most dictionaries.



                To this stem you add -or, so the noun you are after is plexor.
                (This kind of counts as -sor because x=cs.)
                The participle stem tends to be indicated by -t- or -s-.
                One important aspect of using the perfect participle stem is that you have one less thing to memorize.






                share|improve this answer













                You seem to be missing the four part in the verb's dictionary entry: plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus.
                The agent noun is derived from the perfect participle stem, which for this verb is plex-.
                This stem is obtained by removing -us from the participle listed in most dictionaries.



                To this stem you add -or, so the noun you are after is plexor.
                (This kind of counts as -sor because x=cs.)
                The participle stem tends to be indicated by -t- or -s-.
                One important aspect of using the perfect participle stem is that you have one less thing to memorize.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 11 hours ago









                Joonas IlmavirtaJoonas Ilmavirta

                46.2k1058265




                46.2k1058265























                    3














                    Good question! Let's break it down.



                    The root of this verb is plect- (notably not plēct- which has a different meaning!). If you look it up in a dictionary you'll see the four parts plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus, which literally mean "I weave, to weave, I wove, woven".



                    Now, the suffix is usually written as -tor, but a better way to think of it is -or, without the t. You put it on the supine stem, aka the past participle stem, aka the fourth principle part: this is the last form listed in the dictionary, the one that ends in -us. In this case, it's plexus. Take the -us off and add the -or and you're done, getting plex-or.



                    To go a bit more in depth, most verbs use a suffix -t- to make the fourth principle part, but some instead use -s-, especially third conjugation verbs ending in dental consonants. This verb happens to be one of those! The actual reasons for choosing one or the other are unclear, but seem to go back to Proto-Italic or even Proto-Italo-Celtic. Back then, either one could be used, but the speakers generally picked one and stuck with it by the time of Latin.



                    So that's where the s comes from, but why don't we see *plectsor? Well, that is indeed what you get when you glue all the pieces together. But the combination ts isn't allowed within Latin words (with the singular exception of etsi which is really two words written together for convenience). So the ts simplifies to s, giving plecsor. Compare the word for "night", in the nominative: noct-s → noc-s → nox.



                    Finally, cs in Latin is written as x, as in duc-s → dux. This doesn't actually change anything about the pronunciation, it's just a spelling quirk. So our final result is plexor.






                    share|improve this answer


























                    • +1 despite my losing the race to answer the question. :) Isn't the choice between t and s the same in the agent noun as in the perfect participle, at least mostly?

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      11 hours ago











                    • @JoonasIlmavirta Good question! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it sounds like you're correct—let me think for a moment and see if I can come up with any counter-examples.

                      – Draconis
                      10 hours ago











                    • @JoonasIlmavirta I'm convinced you're right now! Edited my answer to reflect that. Even if there are some rare exceptions, that's a much more useful way for a learner to think of it.

                      – Draconis
                      10 hours ago











                    • Just to be sure, I asked a follow-up question. I'm not aware of any counterexamples, but I don't know how universal it really is.

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      4 hours ago
















                    3














                    Good question! Let's break it down.



                    The root of this verb is plect- (notably not plēct- which has a different meaning!). If you look it up in a dictionary you'll see the four parts plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus, which literally mean "I weave, to weave, I wove, woven".



                    Now, the suffix is usually written as -tor, but a better way to think of it is -or, without the t. You put it on the supine stem, aka the past participle stem, aka the fourth principle part: this is the last form listed in the dictionary, the one that ends in -us. In this case, it's plexus. Take the -us off and add the -or and you're done, getting plex-or.



                    To go a bit more in depth, most verbs use a suffix -t- to make the fourth principle part, but some instead use -s-, especially third conjugation verbs ending in dental consonants. This verb happens to be one of those! The actual reasons for choosing one or the other are unclear, but seem to go back to Proto-Italic or even Proto-Italo-Celtic. Back then, either one could be used, but the speakers generally picked one and stuck with it by the time of Latin.



                    So that's where the s comes from, but why don't we see *plectsor? Well, that is indeed what you get when you glue all the pieces together. But the combination ts isn't allowed within Latin words (with the singular exception of etsi which is really two words written together for convenience). So the ts simplifies to s, giving plecsor. Compare the word for "night", in the nominative: noct-s → noc-s → nox.



                    Finally, cs in Latin is written as x, as in duc-s → dux. This doesn't actually change anything about the pronunciation, it's just a spelling quirk. So our final result is plexor.






                    share|improve this answer


























                    • +1 despite my losing the race to answer the question. :) Isn't the choice between t and s the same in the agent noun as in the perfect participle, at least mostly?

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      11 hours ago











                    • @JoonasIlmavirta Good question! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it sounds like you're correct—let me think for a moment and see if I can come up with any counter-examples.

                      – Draconis
                      10 hours ago











                    • @JoonasIlmavirta I'm convinced you're right now! Edited my answer to reflect that. Even if there are some rare exceptions, that's a much more useful way for a learner to think of it.

                      – Draconis
                      10 hours ago











                    • Just to be sure, I asked a follow-up question. I'm not aware of any counterexamples, but I don't know how universal it really is.

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      4 hours ago














                    3












                    3








                    3







                    Good question! Let's break it down.



                    The root of this verb is plect- (notably not plēct- which has a different meaning!). If you look it up in a dictionary you'll see the four parts plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus, which literally mean "I weave, to weave, I wove, woven".



                    Now, the suffix is usually written as -tor, but a better way to think of it is -or, without the t. You put it on the supine stem, aka the past participle stem, aka the fourth principle part: this is the last form listed in the dictionary, the one that ends in -us. In this case, it's plexus. Take the -us off and add the -or and you're done, getting plex-or.



                    To go a bit more in depth, most verbs use a suffix -t- to make the fourth principle part, but some instead use -s-, especially third conjugation verbs ending in dental consonants. This verb happens to be one of those! The actual reasons for choosing one or the other are unclear, but seem to go back to Proto-Italic or even Proto-Italo-Celtic. Back then, either one could be used, but the speakers generally picked one and stuck with it by the time of Latin.



                    So that's where the s comes from, but why don't we see *plectsor? Well, that is indeed what you get when you glue all the pieces together. But the combination ts isn't allowed within Latin words (with the singular exception of etsi which is really two words written together for convenience). So the ts simplifies to s, giving plecsor. Compare the word for "night", in the nominative: noct-s → noc-s → nox.



                    Finally, cs in Latin is written as x, as in duc-s → dux. This doesn't actually change anything about the pronunciation, it's just a spelling quirk. So our final result is plexor.






                    share|improve this answer















                    Good question! Let's break it down.



                    The root of this verb is plect- (notably not plēct- which has a different meaning!). If you look it up in a dictionary you'll see the four parts plectō, plectere, plexī, plexus, which literally mean "I weave, to weave, I wove, woven".



                    Now, the suffix is usually written as -tor, but a better way to think of it is -or, without the t. You put it on the supine stem, aka the past participle stem, aka the fourth principle part: this is the last form listed in the dictionary, the one that ends in -us. In this case, it's plexus. Take the -us off and add the -or and you're done, getting plex-or.



                    To go a bit more in depth, most verbs use a suffix -t- to make the fourth principle part, but some instead use -s-, especially third conjugation verbs ending in dental consonants. This verb happens to be one of those! The actual reasons for choosing one or the other are unclear, but seem to go back to Proto-Italic or even Proto-Italo-Celtic. Back then, either one could be used, but the speakers generally picked one and stuck with it by the time of Latin.



                    So that's where the s comes from, but why don't we see *plectsor? Well, that is indeed what you get when you glue all the pieces together. But the combination ts isn't allowed within Latin words (with the singular exception of etsi which is really two words written together for convenience). So the ts simplifies to s, giving plecsor. Compare the word for "night", in the nominative: noct-s → noc-s → nox.



                    Finally, cs in Latin is written as x, as in duc-s → dux. This doesn't actually change anything about the pronunciation, it's just a spelling quirk. So our final result is plexor.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 5 hours ago

























                    answered 12 hours ago









                    DraconisDraconis

                    15.1k22066




                    15.1k22066













                    • +1 despite my losing the race to answer the question. :) Isn't the choice between t and s the same in the agent noun as in the perfect participle, at least mostly?

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      11 hours ago











                    • @JoonasIlmavirta Good question! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it sounds like you're correct—let me think for a moment and see if I can come up with any counter-examples.

                      – Draconis
                      10 hours ago











                    • @JoonasIlmavirta I'm convinced you're right now! Edited my answer to reflect that. Even if there are some rare exceptions, that's a much more useful way for a learner to think of it.

                      – Draconis
                      10 hours ago











                    • Just to be sure, I asked a follow-up question. I'm not aware of any counterexamples, but I don't know how universal it really is.

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      4 hours ago



















                    • +1 despite my losing the race to answer the question. :) Isn't the choice between t and s the same in the agent noun as in the perfect participle, at least mostly?

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      11 hours ago











                    • @JoonasIlmavirta Good question! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it sounds like you're correct—let me think for a moment and see if I can come up with any counter-examples.

                      – Draconis
                      10 hours ago











                    • @JoonasIlmavirta I'm convinced you're right now! Edited my answer to reflect that. Even if there are some rare exceptions, that's a much more useful way for a learner to think of it.

                      – Draconis
                      10 hours ago











                    • Just to be sure, I asked a follow-up question. I'm not aware of any counterexamples, but I don't know how universal it really is.

                      – Joonas Ilmavirta
                      4 hours ago

















                    +1 despite my losing the race to answer the question. :) Isn't the choice between t and s the same in the agent noun as in the perfect participle, at least mostly?

                    – Joonas Ilmavirta
                    11 hours ago





                    +1 despite my losing the race to answer the question. :) Isn't the choice between t and s the same in the agent noun as in the perfect participle, at least mostly?

                    – Joonas Ilmavirta
                    11 hours ago













                    @JoonasIlmavirta Good question! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it sounds like you're correct—let me think for a moment and see if I can come up with any counter-examples.

                    – Draconis
                    10 hours ago





                    @JoonasIlmavirta Good question! I hadn't thought of it that way, but it sounds like you're correct—let me think for a moment and see if I can come up with any counter-examples.

                    – Draconis
                    10 hours ago













                    @JoonasIlmavirta I'm convinced you're right now! Edited my answer to reflect that. Even if there are some rare exceptions, that's a much more useful way for a learner to think of it.

                    – Draconis
                    10 hours ago





                    @JoonasIlmavirta I'm convinced you're right now! Edited my answer to reflect that. Even if there are some rare exceptions, that's a much more useful way for a learner to think of it.

                    – Draconis
                    10 hours ago













                    Just to be sure, I asked a follow-up question. I'm not aware of any counterexamples, but I don't know how universal it really is.

                    – Joonas Ilmavirta
                    4 hours ago





                    Just to be sure, I asked a follow-up question. I'm not aware of any counterexamples, but I don't know how universal it really is.

                    – Joonas Ilmavirta
                    4 hours ago










                    Clinton J is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.










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